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Here's a sketch of some themes I'd like Daredevil to enable better, whether through sub-classes or just feat options. IMO the chassis needs more oomph which can be done via unique abilities perhaps gated from poaching, so I'd prefer sub-classes plus follow-up feats.
Improviser: Building off of Breakaway Attack's vibe, giving Daredevil more (needed) unarmed combat support. It'd begin with Powerful Fist at minimum though I'd appreciate an ability that let you use your Handwraps Runes with Simple melee & thrown weapons too (perhaps explicitly not special materials or valuable, or maybe with risk of breaking them so PC prefers cheap ones). Some Stances feel appropriate too, esp. Stumbling, though maybe that's stepping on toes?
Rowdy: Strength. Emphasis on Athletics, i.e. can use for Dirty Trick (if they take it) and Tumble Through, maybe more. Medium armor proficiency. Punishing Shove from Guardian.
Aerial: Dex. Emphasis on Acrobatics, using it as a substitute for (some) Athletics maneuvers plus Leap & its feats. Add Dex to Stunt Damage, no enemy Reactions when Leaping (or Flying at 1/2 speed).
Vaulter: Built around polearms, staffs, & spears. I'm thinking of the Staff Acrobat updated with today's hindsight plus suitable for PFS play. Give ability to use (some) maneuvers w/ weapon w/o free hand. The Archetype captures what I'm imagining, though it may need trimming. Monkey King vibes would be welcome too.
Showoff: Enable Bold Bluffs, Don't Mess With Me, and similar feats by substituting Acrobatics and/or Athletics for the roll. Be able to apply Off-Guard from Bold Bluffs to maneuvers (maybe other Feint effects too), perhaps via choosing to lower the enemy's Ref DC instead (though maybe Dirty Trick suffices?). It seems empowering Charisma directly would hit a wall early.
Maverick: One who can ad-lib new Stunts. Perhaps too mechanically complex on a class that needs tactical savvy or too open-ended on a new class, but it seems there should be more options to just wing it. Perhaps colorful description suffices, but yeah, if I see some contrived opportunity, this seems the class to enable some outside-the-box shenanigan...albeit inside the box mechanically.
As always, add your own suggestions, comments, & questions.
Cheers.
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I feel the concept of the daredevil is so narrow that you can't really fit subclasses into it. In a way I prefer it that way, since all the subclass-less classes (fighter, guardian, monk) of the system usually end up being really good. I hope that ends up being the case for the daredevil as well.
Those three classes all have a beefier chassis than (current) Daredevil. I would like if Daredevil were some best-at-maneuvers mirror of Fighter, which has distinct feat support most every level for most every combat style (as demonstrated by many Combat Style Archetypes being mostly Fighter feats). Heck, one has to choose which shield feats to emphasize or which Reactive Strike ones. In that vein, each Daredevil theme above could work with similar feat support and a supportive chassis. Right now it feels like Daredevil's a bit fast & loose, scrabbling to survive (much less thrive). I really hope there's a packet of tried-and-true Strike feats linked to maneuvers & Stunt Damage that Paizo didn't have to playtest as much as these ones.
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While I feel the Daredevil could certainly use more meat on their bones, I agree with exequiel759 that their niche is already so narrow that I don't think subclasses are a great fit for the class. More than that, I think subclasses somewhat go against the point of the Daredevil, which is to exploit their surroundings however they can and make use of whatever abilities they have, which is presumably why they currently have a carbon copy of the Fighter's combat flexibility features. In my experience, the Daredevil suffers a lot already from being pushed to do something very specific and not having the means to do it, so having a subclass that'd have them commit to a niche of an already niche playstyle I think may also introduce more problems than it might solve, unless each of those subclasses goes out of its way to give the Daredevil some consistent baseline options.
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I somewhat agree with you, but if the fighter (since you are using it as an example) doesn't need subclasses, the daredevil doesn't either. Much like the guardian, the daredevil needs a stronger chassis and meaningful feat options at every level to have that "build your own subclass" approach.
I somewhat agree with you, but if the fighter (since you are using it as an example) doesn't need subclasses, the daredevil doesn't either. Much like the guardian, the daredevil needs a stronger chassis and meaningful feat options at every level to have that "build your own subclass" approach.
Yep, you're restating my point.
Either (or any) mechanical route would satisfy me, as long as the class enabled those themes. I see all of them falling under the Daredevil umbrella, so much that the class kinda fails if it can't support them. Subclasses, ones more like Rogue Rackets than Cleric Doctrines, would allow for special abilities the MCD couldn't easily poach (which I think some of my suggestions might qualify as). If Paizo deems nothing's so special, and if there are enough universal Daredevil abilities to beef up the chassis broadly, then yeah, subclasses would be extraneous.