How many actions does a stand alone grenade launcher require?

[DarkSavior]

Quick question, is launching a grenade from a grenade launcher 1 or 2 actions? Its inconsistent in the rules so I am seeking clarity. What I mean is throwing a grenade is a single action as defined in the grenade trait, launching one with an undermounted GL is also a single action, but then the grenade launcher conflicts, first in the description saying, "Grenades can be launched from grenade launchers, instead of thrown, using the grenade launcher's range instead of the usual range of 70 feet" which strongly implies its the same as throwing a grenade (single action) just with the launcher's range. Then goes on to list the following:

"GRENADE LAUNCHER ITEM 0+
TECH
Usage held in 2 hands; Bulk 3
Activate [two-actions] Area Fire
The rotating barrel of this...

Thanks

[Rotfell]

It is in fact a 2-action activation. There may be several reasons for it, like:

* only one Interact to have access to 6 grenades (which you can choose to fire)
* only 2 Interact to get the next 6
* upgraded versions make grenades better (tracking and adding weapon upgrades for more critical effects, damage, ghost killer, etc.)
* throwing is more natural than aiming and shooting (and making use of that high range)

Btw, grenades still can bounce, so you can do some funny stuff with it. ;)

[DarkSavior]

Has this been officially clarified anywhere? Because I have seen good arguments the other way. The general rule for area fire being beaten by the specific rules for grenades is one and launchers basically stating in their description that they only change the range is another. Then the undermounted also launching as a single action confuses interpretations further. It makes it look like a typo or oversight and could really use some official clarification. For balancing purposes, a character with 2 tactical hideaway limbs could, depending on how many light items their GM allows, access 2-3 reasonably in an arm, and more in a leg, and then draw and throw is a single action. Also it costs the exact same amount of actions to simply draw and throw a grenade, of any flavor, with only a limit of how many you can wear without being encumbered. This is all without 3 extra bulk worth of weapon to boot in the stand alone grenade launcher, and while its range is great, ranges beyond 60 feet are outlier, corner case in many games and even the assumptions of combat in SF2E, so its not really a major consideration. I guess my point is that the GL really loses a ton of appeal over other options with its downsides already, and the upside ultimately is just tracking.

[Lia Wynn]

The stat block, which you quoted, would be official clarification IMO. I mean, the item is telling you how many actions it takes to use, and Rotfell gave good reasons as to why. You don't have to like the answer, but you already have it.

[Finoan]

DarkSavior wrote:

"Grenades can be launched from grenade launchers, instead of thrown, using the grenade launcher's range instead of the usual range of 70 feet" which strongly implies its the same as throwing a grenade (single action) just with the launcher's range.

It doesn't imply that.

It implies that it replaces the rules for throwing a grenade. That is what "instead of thrown" means.

DarkSavior wrote:

Activate [two-actions] Area Fire

That is how many actions the item takes to activate. And if that item activation isn't launching a grenade, then what is it doing?

-----

Counterarguments:

Comparison to Undermounted Grenade launcher. Yes, the Undermounted Grenade launcher only takes one action to fire. That is its benefit. Don't gloss over all of its downsides in the comparison. The Undermounted Grenade launcher can also only be fired once per battle, can only be used with utility grenades, and can't be unloaded without destroying the grenade in the process. That is the cost the item pays in order to gain the improved action usage.

General rule for Area Fire being overridden by Grenade rules. That would only be a reasonable argument if you were using the Grenade rules for the Area Fire action. If you are using a Grenade Launcher, then you have the even more specific Grenade Launcher item rule telling you exactly how many actions it costs to use the item's Area Fire activity.

Grenade Launcher description only overriding the range of throwing a grenade. As noted above, this is just incorrect. The item also overrides the action cost of using the item. It doesn't do so in the description, it does so in its stat block - which is even more explicit of an override.

[DarkSavior]

Ok thanks, I was wondering how to rule it, because it looks like there were several different things saying differing things about grenades, and inconsistent. I was looking for better reasoning to offer counters, and you helped me get it. I presented the arguments I had read online, when I went looking for an answer prior, and it really did strike me as inconsistent, perhaps as if the GL was an oversight that just re-printed the general area fire for 2 action rule. Also coupled with the arguments that make the GL look not much better if at all than simply throwing grenades. So thanks for the counter arguments. I was also sincerely curious if it had any further official clarifications I had missed, because I read through the most recent errata and did not see this anywhere there either. Thanks.