*SPOILERS* Questions about NPC in book 3 & 4


Season of Ghosts


First off, I've read through all the books and I really love the story and look forward to running it. I'm reading it through again much more thoroughly and there's still one big thing that I have concerns with and maybe other DMs have some suggestions or maybe I missed something important.

This is a very long post and filled with *major* campaign spoilers!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

______

In Book 3,

Spoiler:
You meet Ren Mei Li. She is described as a "supernatural echo of the real thing" and a "mindscape duplicate," whatever that means. I can't find any particular rules on "mindscape duplicate" but that seems mostly irrelevant. It seems she did some vague dabbling in the occult and somehow "copied her psyche into the mindscape," but the real Ren Mei Li somehow doesn't know this happened. There are no answers as to how this works. Her occult dabbling isn't explained anywhere (unless I missed something). A few things in this quest can have effects on book 4.

In Book 4,

Spoiler:
Ren Mei Li returns. The book states that if PCs inform her of the other version, she is intrigued and wants details, but it gives no explanation about what happened or how that echo was created and the text immediately moves on.

So here are my problems with this:

First:
In book 3, it mentions she has servants with her in the mindscape. How are these servants here if only her psyche was copied?
Second:
How is a copied psyche able to make real silver collars?
Third:
In book 4, she is supposed to be an ally who is so crucial to the plot that if you don't ally with her, the DM will have to completely change a big part of the book to get PCs where they need to go in the end. Having her be so antagonistic and awful in book 3 would only encourage PCs NOT to ally with her, which seems like a weird problem the writers created that will only have to make the DM work harder to get PCs to trust this NPC.
Fourth:
How did any of this happen? Most additional NPCs that were "pulled" into the Mindscape did so as part of the creation of it. Somehow she comes many months after with vague occult stuff and part of her is pulled in along with servants and a palanquin? And none of them are aware? How?

I am aware I can hand-wave my questions and concerns and hope my players don't ask, but I am curious about the answers and I imagine my players would be too.

Possible change?:
I already have a problem where my players are women so all of the content about how she reacts to handsome men and beautiful women is an entirely different issue I am working on. Because of all my questions and concerns, I am thinking of removing this quest from book 3 entirely and just moving some of the important information and perhaps the ceremony skill checks to book 4 (including finding a way to make up for the lack of silver collars). Then they are less likely to distrust her and I can ignore all this occult duplicate stuff.

For those of you that have ran these books, did you change any of this or find answers I did not?

Once again, I love the story, I just can't wrap my head around these bits.

Thank you again for reading all that! Any input is appreciated.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Some answers to your four questions:

Spoiler:
1) Her servants are also creations from her psyche.
2) A copied psyche isn't the same as the source, but for all intents and purposes, they're a real physical presence in the mindscape capable of creating objects. The silver collars are as real as any piece of loot the PCs discover in the mindscape and then carry with them into the modern world.
3) The goal is to show that at the start of the Age of Lost Omens she was unpleasant like most jorogumo, but that when the PCs meet her in book 4, 115 years later, she's changed. The PCs should be receptive to all sorts of changes over the course of the century the were "out," and Ren Mei Li's personality change after that period is intended to be potentially jarring. If your PCs are having trust issues with her, consider having her gift them some minor magic items as an attempt to broker peace or at least a truce, but coming to terms with the changed world is part of the challenge.
4) The duplicate of her formed in the mindscape as a result of the real-world version of her visiting Willowshore several months after the village died. She arrived in the Winter, at the same time in the original year after that event as her duplicate does in every cycle of the mindscape, a psychic reflection of a powerful personality manifesting without the real living version's knowledge. Her arrival is as much a part of the "program" of the year long mindscape as is any sort of event that takes place during that year.

Of course, the PCs won't realize the strangeness of this until book 4, when with the benefit of hindsight they can look back over things, so it shouldn't be until the real one visits Willowshore in that fourth adventure that their curiosity should be aroused. As detailed on page 25 of book four, if she learns about her duplicate, she treats that as a chance to not only learn/remember how much she's changed but also is intrigued by the manifestation; she has theories about all of this after all, so you can use her as a GM voice to help explain to the PCs what's been going on and answer questions.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

One other bit of general advice to consider—if your players don't raise a concern or topic about something you might find confusing, then don't worry about it. Trying to over-explain things when the players are already comfortable with the information creates confusion.

And if your players ARE confused about any sort of mystery or plot, listen to their confusion and consider their theories. There's always multiple ways to explain and answer mysteries, and if your players come up with theories and explanations that feel plausible or even better than what you or the author of the adventure came up with, change things so that the players' theories ARE correct. This helps to make the players feel like they're figuring out the story and makes it look like you or the adventure writer was very elegant about how they set up the hints for the solution.

If a player later reads the adventure and realizes things change, tell the truth—"Your solution seemed better so I went with that; thank you for improving the story and making the game more fun for us all!"


It was a secret hope of mine that you would show up and comment on my post! Thank you!

I am a less experienced DM so I am trying to work out as much as I can before hand. I still have the urge to get all the details nailed down, that I might just have to resist. Your comment of "don't worry about it" is the exact opposite of my gaming philosophy! I'm sure my DMs think I ask too many questions sometimes.

I will take your advice though and add it too my notes so if the PCs do ask questions, I will have more to build off of. I particularly like the point of the NPC reflecting on things.

Thank you very much for taking time out of your day to answer this!

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