My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.
So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).
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My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.
So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).
More than a year since the release and they didn't fixed the typo? Hmmm... I don't think so. Let's see if somebody will post anything more than a "guess".
And by RAW, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric (as written in the book), not 3rd, so he can use it when reach level 3 in his class as a 2nd level spell. Unless there is an official errata/FAQ/clarification about it. And that is what I want to know.
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Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.
Under the Deity section for the cleric class...
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
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Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.
Under the Deity section for the cleric class...
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
Did you read the text at page 130 of Gods & Magic?
It doesn't say that you gain Aqueous Orb at cleric level 2, but as a 2nd level spell, so you can cast it when you reach cleric level 3. In the same way you got Solid Fog as a 4th spell level, not at cleric level 4, so you can cast it only when reach cleric level 7.
So, as written, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric.
Denitetively it must be clarifeied.
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Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.
Under the Deity section for the cleric class...
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
Did you read the text at page 130 of Gods & Magic?
It doesn't say that you gain Aqueous Orb at cleric level 2, but as a 2nd level spell, so you can cast it when you reach cleric level 3. In the same way you got Solid Fog as a 4th spell level, not at cleric level 4, so you can cast it only when reach cleric level 7.
So, as written, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric.
Denitetively it must be clarifeied.
I did read the line on page 130 in Gods and Magic. Did you read the line from page 118 in the core rule book that I posted?
The spell gets added to your list at 2nd level, before that it is not on your list. The quote even mentions preparing them once you hit the proper level...it does not mention changing the spell level or giving you free slots or anything...just that it adds it to your list at 2nd level. Seems pretty clear to me, the benefit is you can now use scrolls of the spell where before 2nd level you could not.
Core rule book page 118
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
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Well you would have access to the 3rd level spell at 2nd level but you would have no 3rd level spell slot to cast it by RAW until 5th level. But it would be on your list for scrolls. Getting access to the spell does not provide a spell slot or change the level of the spell it just adds it to your list.
Under the Deity section for the cleric class...
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
Did you read the text at page 130 of Gods & Magic?
It doesn't say that you gain Aqueous Orb at cleric level 2, but as a 2nd level spell, so you can cast it when you reach cleric level 3. In the same way you got Solid Fog as a 4th spell level, not at cleric level 4, so you can cast it only when reach cleric level 7.
So, as written, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric.
Denitetively it must be clarifeied.
I did read the line on page 130 in Gods and Magic. Did you read the line from page 118 in the core rule book that I posted?
The spell gets added to your list at 2nd level, before that it is not on your list. The quote even mentions preparing them once you hit the proper level...it does not mention changing the spell level or giving you free slots or anything...just that it adds it to your list at 2nd level. Seems pretty clear to me, the benefit is you can now use scrolls of the spell where before 2nd level you could not.
Core rule book page 118
"Your deity also adds spells to your spell list. You can prepare these just like you can any spell on the divine spell list, once you can prepare spells of their level as a cleric. Some of these spells aren’t normally on the divine list, but they’re divine spells if you prepare them this way."
And on page 130 of Gods & Magic says that Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for clerics, not that you gain it when reach level 2 in the class.
And on page 130 of Gods & Magic says that Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for clerics, not that you gain it when reach level 2 in the class.
I really don't see what point this distinction is supposed to make. Obviously, they know that you would gain the spell into your tradition at Character Level 3, as evidenced by their clarifications. Suggesting they aren't understanding this concept is a strawman, and suggesting that this distinction you make is important or misunderstood when the contrary has been demonstrated shows your objectivity to be disingenuous.
What they are saying is that this feature (gaining access to a 3rd level spell at Character Level 3) does not designate it to be a 2nd level spell, especially when the rules demonstrate that it is a minimum Spell Level of 3rd, and that you can only cast spells at their minimum Spell Level, and not any lower than that minimum Spell Level. And I agree 100% with this assessment that, at best, you can cast an Aqueous Orb spell from a scroll prior to acquiring Spell Level 3 at Character Level 5.
If we operate under the assumption that the deity spells aren't supposed to give you access to spells you can't cast yet, this means that the given spell for the level is incorrect, and an appropriate substitute must be given, since undercasting a spell from its minimum level is obviously both unintended and not particularly permissible by the rules. If the argument is that it must be a 2nd level spell associated with Water (such as with the Water trait), there is always Obscuring Mist, or even Quench might work instead.
More than a year since the release and they didn't fixed the typo? Hmmm... I don't think so. Let's see if somebody will post anything more than a "guess".My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.
So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).
Anyone on these forums (other than the mythic rare dev presence) who says that their opinion on what a developer thinks is more than just a guess is lying to you.
And by RAW, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric (as written in the book), not 3rd, so he can use it when reach level 3 in his class as a 2nd level spell. Unless there is an official errata/FAQ/clarification about it. And that is what I want to know.
I would invoke ambiguous rules. Getting a 3rd level spell as a 2nd level spell is too good to be true. Especially if there is no availability for the spell to exist at that level. We don't have rules for lowering a spell below its minimum listed level. Aqueous Orb doesn't have any heightened effects or give any damage, but I wouldn't want to set the precedent for other spells.
The alternate interpretation that this is a typo is much more reasonable.
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And on page 130 of Gods & Magic says that Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for clerics, not that you gain it when reach level 2 in the class.I really don't see what point this distinction is supposed to make. Obviously, they know that you would gain the spell into your tradition at Character Level 3, as evidenced by their clarifications. Suggesting they aren't understanding this concept is a strawman, and suggesting that this distinction you make is important or misunderstood when the contrary has been demonstrated shows your objectivity to be disingenuous.
What they are saying is that this feature (gaining access to a 3rd level spell at Character Level 3) does not designate it to be a 2nd level spell, especially when the rules demonstrate that it is a minimum Spell Level of 3rd, and that you can only cast spells at their minimum Spell Level, and not any lower than that minimum Spell Level. And I agree 100% with this assessment that, at best, you can cast an Aqueous Orb spell from a scroll prior to acquiring Spell Level 3 at Character Level 5.
If we operate under the assumption that the deity spells aren't supposed to give you access to spells you can't cast yet, this means that the given spell for the level is incorrect, and an appropriate substitute must be given, since undercasting a spell from its minimum level is obviously both unintended and not particularly permissible by the rules. If the argument is that it must be a 2nd level spell associated with Water (such as with the Water trait), there is always Obscuring Mist, or even Quench might work instead.
The text at the book says:
"Cleric *Spells* 1st: hydraulic push, *2nd*: aqueous orb, 4th: solid fog."
Note that it doesn't say that when you reach that levels in the class, you gain them. It fixes the spells' level.
Can be a typo? Maybe. Or not. As I said, it need clarification.
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More than a year since the release and they didn't fixed the typo? Hmmm... I don't think so. Let's see if somebody will post anything more than a "guess".My guess is typo. Even if the cleric gained access to the spell at character level 3 when they can cast 2nd level spells, they still couldn't put a 3rd level spell into a 2nd level spell slot.
So functionally it would be equivalent to giving access to the spell at 3rd level (character level 5).
Anyone on these forums (other than the mythic rare dev presence) who says that their opinion on what a developer thinks is more than just a guess is lying to you.
And by RAW, Aqueous Orb is a 2nd level spell for a Hanspur's cleric (as written in the book), not 3rd, so he can use it when reach level 3 in his class as a 2nd level spell. Unless there is an official errata/FAQ/clarification about it. And that is what I want to know.I would invoke ambiguous rules. Getting a 3rd level spell as a 2nd level spell is too good to be true. Especially if there is no availability for the spell to exist at that level. We don't have rules for lowering a spell below its minimum listed level. Aqueous Orb doesn't have any heightened effects or give any damage, but I wouldn't want to set the precedent for other spells.
The alternate interpretation that this is a typo is much more reasonable.
Please, show me the part that I told that someone was lying.
The only thing I've been saying is that at Gods & Magic, clerics of Hanspur cast Aqueous Orb as a 2nd level spell - and it is written there.
Again: can be a typo? Maybe. Exactly because of this, it must be clarified or we will stand in an eternal discussion around guesses, not RAW.
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Remember, there is no "RAW" in 2E.
This isn't 1E.
We have rules for handling "Too good to be true" occurrences, as well as ambiguous rules.
Treat it as a 3rd level spell until it gets Errata'd.
I'll trail in this way, for sure. My question here is more a necessity of clarification around this point, since the text in Gods & Magic says something differently than the general rules says. And as specific things should prevail over general, it became dubious, at minimum.
Please, show me the part that I told that someone was lying.
I didn't say that you are lying.
You asked a question. A legitimate question. There is definitely something confusing there.
I answered the question to the best of my ability. You apparently didn't like my answer. You also didn't like that I explicitly mention that what I said was just my thoughts, feelings, opinions, and guesses about the best way to handle the problem instead of being some sort of official answer.
So you replied in a disparaging way saying that you didn't like my answer because it was just a guess and wanted someone else to come give you a more official answer.
I'm simply pointing out that hoping that someone will come on here and go:
Yeah, I talked to the game devs and asked them about this and they said _________________.
isn't what you should be expecting.
This Hypothetical Forum Poster is the person that I would be accusing of lying. Not you.
The game devs are currently busy creating new content. When they do get around to creating errata, there are bigger problems to work on than an incorrect spell level listing for a Deity's granted spell.
So feel free to stalk the FAQ page if you want an official answer. I have several questions of my own that I am stalking that page for. Until then, feel free to ask the random internet strangers here on these forums to see what we all think. But don't expect a random internet stranger to somehow be able to give you an official answer.
I am not a game dev.
Nefreet is not a game dev.
Darksol the Painbringer is not a game dev.
Slamy Mcbiteo is not a game dev.
So whether we actually explicitly say so or not, all of our answers are just going to be a guess, or an opinion, or a ruling that we use at our table that we are happy with.