An Argument against interdepedent d20 rolls and Player Satisfaction


Magus Class


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Lot so charts and numbers talking about what magus's good turn and DPR looks like, etc, etc. I think there are lot's of fair points in both ways, and that often the numbers are not SO far apart that they can't be tuned to right as it is.

However, I think a very real measurement that will impact player satisfaction is "What are the chances that I don't get anything done this turn?"

Fighters swinging twice against an on-level foe with High AC have only about a 16% chance of missing both attacks and have a "Wasted Turn".
Most martials have a 25% chance of having a bad turn in the same scenario. Regardless of class features and damage, just basic two attacks, second at -5.

If the Magus misses their Strike on the turn they use Striking Spell that's it. 39% chance that they don't get anything done.

Yes the spell persists, and that's not really the chance that they lose a spell slot, etc. And yes when they do hit both the damage spikes fairly high so the averages level out a bit, because spikey single target damage can be better than DPR calculations suggest situationally. But from the pure argument of FEEL, it feels much worse for a Magus to miss that Strike than bad luck in another martial class's turn.

I had this feeling in the Investigator playtest and I have it now. Lot's of suggestions are about boosting the accuracy of the first strike, or the spell attack roll. About guaranteeing the spell roll if the attack hits, but I still wonder if high chance of a wasted turn is a desirable trade-off for high burst turns.

TL;DR Making one d20 roll depend on another is a design space that creates extremes, and it is my opinion that the extreme lows feel too bad for it to be a satisfying mechanic.

d20 games are swingey. Are the high's of double critting the strike and spell worth the lows of doing nothing in a turn? What are alternatives that don't just make the magus the highest damage class? Is dependency a necessary price to pay in order to have a spell and Strike in the same turn as a class feature?


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I would be ok with magus being the highest damaging class if it is the highest damaging class a few times a day. then maybe a little below for the rest of the day. How many times per day is a bit more debatable.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I would be ok with magus being the highest damaging class if it is the highest damaging class a few times a day. then maybe a little below for the rest of the day. How many times per day is a bit more debatable.

Right now it's more like Magus might get to be the highest damage class once or twice per day, on average, if built specifically for crit-shenanigans and they take a set-up turn for buffs...


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Yeah that wouldn't be any good. that is what the play test is for. That above is my suggestion.

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