Ranzak and boon acquisition for closing locations.


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Kleptomaniac Ranzak has a power that reads:

"If another character at your location fails a check to acquire a boon, you may attempt a check to acquire it."

If he is at a location with another character, and that character attempts to close a location that requires you to summon and acquire a boon but fails the attempt, does Ranzak's successful acquisition trigger the close? If so, i'm assuming he would benefit/suffer from the when closed condition.


We ran into a similar question with Siwar's power to give someone else Banes and Locations that say "Summon and defeat something." Her power is worded as:

If there is another character at your location, you may evade a bane; a random other character at your location encounters it instead.

We decided that the Location doesn't close if she doesn't do it, as the Bane was evaded by the person with the opportunity to close the location, not defeated. Someone else may have encountered and defeated it, but that doesn't matter to the constant use of "you" in the rulebook in relation to closing Locations and summoning cards.

The flip side, though, is that if she hands off a Henchman that gives the chance to close the Location, then it's the other person who gets that chance because it's the other person who encountered it. This usually works out in the group's favor. :)

Anyway, I would think Ranzak's power would fall into a similar situation: he's not the person with the opportunity, so what he does doesn't matter. That's just based on our group's quick ruling, though, not anything we spent a lot of time researching.


I follow Parody
You (not Ranzak) are given the opportunity to close
You (not Ranzak) are asked to acquire a boon to close
You don't acquire
So you don't close
Period

Then as a side effect Ranzak can acquire but since he is not currently been given by the rules an opportunity to close that acquisition will not trigger any closing / closing effect

IMHO


Thanks

That's how we have been playing the kicking of henchmen to other characters. I agree with the thought process of the boon issue.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Let's examine the relevant rules:

MM rulebook p29 wrote:
No One Else Can Take Your Turn for You. Whenever you encounter a card or make a check, you—and only you—must resolve it. No other character can evade it, defeat it, acquire it, close it, decide what to do with it, or fail at doing any of those things. If Simoun encounters a monster that has the Undead trait, Estra can’t play an Embalmer to evade it for her. If Alahazra encounters a Scarab Swarm, Yoon can’t attempt the check to defeat it. If Amhotep encounters a Tarworks Master, Ezren can’t acquire it. If Zadim defeats a henchman at the Caravanserai, Damiel can’t banish an item to close the location. If the game tells you to do something, you have to do it.

Ranzak's character power explicitly breaks this rule in terms of acquiring boons, and per the Golden Rules the power overrides the rulebook in that regard. The power does not override this paragraph in any other regard.

MM rulebook p15 wrote:
The When Closing section on some locations requires you to summon and defeat (or acquire) a card. Summon and encounter it; if you do not defeat (or acquire) it, the location is not closed.
MM rulebook p15 wrote:
When you have the opportunity and want to close a location, do whatever the location’s When Closing section says. Locations often require specific checks to close them; otherwise, they list specific tasks you must perform. (If a location says you may close it automatically, you don’t need to do anything else.) If the When Closing text offers multiple options separated by “or,” you must choose an option before you use any powers, play any cards, or roll any dice. If you succeed at meeting the When Closing requirement, search the location deck for villains. ...

The thing that stands out at me here are the lines "if you do not defeat (or acquire) it, the location is not closed." and "If you succeed at meeting the When Closing requirement, ..."

In other words, you were given the opportunity to close the location, so you must be the one that succeeds at that opportunity -- nobody else can take your turn for you. Ranzak can pick up that boon you failed to nab, but ultimately Ranzak is the one that acquired that card; you did not succeed on that check.

All of this is to say that I agree with all of the above posters, I just wanted to bring the rules into it to back up their points :)

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