Unlike other afflictions, multiple doses of the same poison stack. Poisons delivered by injury and contact cannot inflict more than one dose of poison at a time, but inhaled and ingested poisons can inflict multiple doses at once. Each additional dose extends the total duration of the poison (as noted under frequency) by half its total duration. In addition, each dose of poison increases the DC to resist the poison by +2. This increase is cumulative. Multiple doses do not alter the cure conditions of the poison, and meeting these conditions ends the affliction for all the doses. For example, a character is bit three times in the same round by a trio of Medium monstrous spiders, injecting him with three doses of Medium spider venom. The unfortunate character must make a DC 18 Fortitude save for the next 8 rounds. Fortunately, just one successful save cures the character of all three doses of the poison.I have a couple of questions that have come up:
1) Poisons delivered by injury and contact cannot inflict more than one dose of poison at a time. What does this mean, exactly? If an assassin fires 4 poison arrows and all 4 hit, is the target hit by 4 doses of poison, or 1. I am inclined to say 4.
That means you can only have one active dose of contact/injury poison in your system.
In the example you have given the target will only be affected by the poison 1 time.If however on a later round the taget is poisoned with the same agent again, the duration and cure conditions are resent.
Example: You are hit by 4 doses of deathblade. You only make one save. You fail your first save but on the second round you succeed. Since deathblade requires you to make two consecutive saves to shake off the effect you need to make your next save to end the effect.
On the third round you are once again injected with deathblade. The damage the previous dose did remains but the duration of the poison is reset. So even if you make your next save you will have to make one more successful save (the third in a row) to end the poison.
2) When do you roll the save? At the beginning of your next turn? If you go in init 11, and opponents go in init 13 and 9, both of them hit you and poison you, do you roll immediately for each or just once on your turn. So if you succeed the first save is the second save at standard DC or DC+2 for multiple doses? I am inclined to say you roll at the beginning of your next turn.
Yes, you roll the save at the start of your turn.
You roll once. First time you roll you do against the poison as normal. By the time you have to make the next save the poison is boosted by the second dose. You got it right I think.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
While I see how you are getting your idea on this, it is in direct conflict of both the example in the poison section and things discussed in these previous threads:HERE and HERE.
Your quote was this:
Unlike other afflictions, multiple doses of the same poison stack. Poisons delivered by injury and contact cannot inflict more than one dose of poison at a time, but inhaled and ingested poisons can inflict multiple doses at once. Each additional dose extends the total duration of the poison (as noted under frequency) by half its total duration. In addition, each dose of poison increases the DC to resist the poison by +2. This increase is cumulative. Multiple doses do not alter the cure conditions of the poison, and meeting these conditions ends the affliction for all the doses. For example, a character is bit three times in the same round by a trio of Medium monstrous spiders, injecting him with three doses of Medium spider venom. The unfortunate character must make a DC 18 Fortitude save for the next 8 rounds. Fortunately, just one successful save cures the character of all three doses of the poison.
I believe you are focusing too much on one sentence here and not reading the entire entry as a whole.
Firstly it says: Multiple doses of poison stack, (notice it does not say multiple doses of inhaled or ingested poisons stack) it is referring to any and all poisons. If you are hit with multiple doses of the same kind of poison they stack, it doesn't matter what type of poison it is.
Secondly we have the sentence that is throwing you off: "Poisons delivered by injury and contact cannot inflict more than one dose of poison at a time, but inhaled and ingested poisons can inflict multiple doses at once." I believe what is throwing you off here is the way you are interpreting the bolded sections. I take this to mean that you can only inflict one dose of injury/contact poison per injury/contact or per attack. However, if you pack three doses of inhaled poison into a vile and then throw that into someone’s face, he will be inflicted be all three doses in a single attack. Same with ingested, you can load up three or four doses into one drink. You can only put one dose of contact or injury poison on a weapon though. And so you can only deliver one dose at a time. But they do still stack with each other as per the first sentence of the quote as well as the example at the end of the quote.
Thirdly we have this: The example of the poor NPC being injected with three doses of Medium Spider Venom in one turn. Notice it is injury poison he is being struck with. But each spider can only inflict one dose per attack. They cannot attack him once and pump multiple doses into him at once. However, the injury poison is still shown as stacking with the other doses of the same poison.
So, all poisons do stack with multiple doses of the same kind of poison. You can only deliver one dose of injury/contact poison per attack. However, you can inflict multiple doses of ingested/inhaled poison in the same attack (breath/drink/food).
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Now, if you have an Assassin who has TWF and has both his weapons coated in the same kind of poison it could look something like this. If he gets two attacks and he hits with both weapons, at the end of his last attack you will make a single Fort Save vs. the DC of two stacked doses of that kind of poison. If he then pulls out two new weapons coated with the same poison and hits you with both on his next turn, then at the end of his attack you will roll a Fort Save vs. the DC of four doses of stacked poison. In this scenario let’s say he was using medium spider venom poison:
Base MSV poison stats: DC 14 last for 4 rounds.
First round you have two doses: DC 16 take first round of poison with 3 rounds to go.
Second round you have four doses: DC 20 take second round of poison with 6 rounds to go.
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Now, if you made the DC 16 save the first round then that poison will be out of your system (since MSV poison only requires 1 save). So in that case the poison you receive in the second round will start the cycle anew (since it has nothing in your system to stack with) the DC would again be 16 and if you fail you take the first round of poison damage with 3 rounds to go.
Sorry for getting it wrong the first time:
EDIT PREVIOUS:
That means you make only one save for a given poison effect per round.
In the example you have given the target will only be affected by the poison 1 time/round.
If however on a later round the taget is poisoned with the same agent again, the duration of the poisson is increased by 50% and the DC by +2 per additional dose, while cure conditions are unchanged.Example: You are hit by 4 doses of deathblade; DC 20 ,duration 6 rounds, cure 2 saves.
You only make one save per round (at DC 26), total duration 15 rounds (6+(3*6*50/100)=15).
You fail your first save but on the second round you succeed (13 saves to go). Since deathblade requires you to make two consecutive saves to shake off the effect you need to make your next save to end the effect.
On the third round you are once again injected with 1 dose of deathblade.
New DC 28, new duration 16 rounds.
The damage the previous dose did remains as does the cure consdition.
Regardless of the new duration if you pass your next DC 28 Fort. save the effect of the poison ends.
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Thanks for the correction.
Base MSV poison stats: DC 14 last for 4 rounds.
First round you have two doses: DC 16 take first round of poison with 3 rounds to go.
Second round you have four doses: DC 20 take second round of poison with 6 rounds to go.
You forgot one detail. Additional doses increse duration by 50% of the normal duration. Your example should read:
Base MSV poison stats: DC 14 last for 4 rounds.
First round you have two doses: DC 16 take first round of poison with 5 rounds to go [after rolling the save].
Second round you have four doses: DC 20 take second round of poison with 8 rounds to go [after rolling the second save].
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Hahah, no I didn't forget, my math was just bad. I was rather tired when I put that post together and I failed to stack the first two doses in round one. Thanks for catching that and making the correction.