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I mean really? long range, 40' radius, long duration, doesnt matter if its grass/shrubs/ trees.....Geeze. My party is in a forest, and the druid can pretty much set the angle on any combat.
We also had a dilema - in the book it say it only grapples foes....really? your buddy the full plate clad fighter can walk in and hack apart the entangled 'foes' no problem. We debated this and believe that it means creatures not foes (thus anyone).
I have a fair amount of outside encounters to do in this campaign; any points/observations about this?
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I don't see the word 'foe' or any variation on it anywhere in the text of the Entangle spell. Ditto 'grapple'.
So yes, Entangle impacts everyone in the area... it explicitly says that. No, it doesn't cause people to be grappled... merely "entangled", which is an entirely different effect that just slows them to half movement speed and imposes some minor penalties on attacks and dexterity checks.
Not an overpowered spell at all. It is a situational effect that comes in handy any time it would be useful to slow enemies down / constrain them to an area for a while. For instance, stopping them from fleeing (or following you while YOU flee)... keeping melee attackers away from your ranged attackers... holding enemies inside the bounds of a harmful effect (e.g. Cloudkill) longer... et cetera.
My book doesn't say 'foes', it says 'creatures', which we've always taken to mean ANY creatures, friend or foe. It is pretty powerful but it has its limitations. It doesn't stop those creatures from pulling out missile weapons (or spells) and firing at the party... just be slowed til they get out.
And it IS only 1st level, so how high can the save be? 11+stat mod... so it's make-able by many creatures.
And actually hinders all the party's primary melee fighters - they can't get to the foes any more than the foes can get to the party. Whenever I used it as the party druid, all i got was 'take down that damn entangle please', so I turned to other spells, sigh.
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My bad on the grappled misprint. I just read another thread debating entangle, and it seems to bring up the idea that you are imobilized if the entangling is caused by something that is stationary - like roots. My druid (aka rules lawyer) will be upset if i take away the mobilization, which is where i am leaning. I mean if you save, you are still in difficult terrain. If you fail you are in difficult terrain AND gain the entangled condition - this is a massive area and range too mind you.
Seems way more fair.
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This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around foes in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move into the area must save immediately. Those that fail must end their movement and gain the entangled condition. Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC for this check is equal to the DC of the spell. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the effect lasts.
If the plants in the area are covered in thorns, those in the area take 1 point of damage each time they fail a save against the entangle or fail a check made to break free. Other effects, depending on the local plants, might be possible at GM discretion.
How is this spell broken? I never even get to use it on druid since its always urban type area and worst of all it effects everyone. That aside its good to split NPCs and/or ranged attack them to death. You can use Selective Metamagic feat to make it work on enemies only tho.
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it actually does say foes in my CRB second printing. to imply that it is a spell that affects only enemies, but it was erattad after being concidered to be over powering.
this spell is hands down the BEST first level spell in this game. you can single handedly knock a large number of creatures out of the fight with a single level 1 spell.
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it actually does say foes in my CRB second printing. to imply that it is a spell that affects only enemies, but it was erattad after being concidered to be over powering.
this spell is hands down the BEST first level spell in this game. you can single handedly knock a large number of creatures out of the fight with a single level 1 spell.
color spray > entangle
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it seems to bring up the idea that you are imobilized if the entangling is caused by something that is stationary - like roots.
This is correct, fail your save and you are immobilised if the entangling object is rooted. However that's not as tough as it may sound, you get a reflex save or a strength check to break free and continue moving on your turn (so the fire giant isn't slowed down for long). The worst thing entangle does is not immobilise foes but slow them down (it makes terrain difficult) and break up their attack into manageable chunks.
It's a powerful spell but very situational. if you are in a forest, a druid is going to own it, because that's what druids do. If you are underground, in a dungeon, in a desert, on a city street...it's useless. So let your druid shine while he can, because come the next chapter he'll be playing second fiddle.
It's a powerful spell but very situational. if you are in a forest, a druid is going to own it, because that's what druids do. If you are underground, in a dungeon, in a desert, on a city street...it's useless. So let your druid shine while he can, because come the next chapter he'll be playing second fiddle.
Pretty much spot on.
My book doesn't say 'foes', it says 'creatures', which we've always taken to mean ANY creatures, friend or foe. It is pretty powerful but it has its limitations. It doesn't stop those creatures from pulling out missile weapons (or spells) and firing at the party... just be slowed til they get out.
And it IS only 1st level, so how high can the save be? 11+stat mod... so it's make-able by many creatures.
And actually hinders all the party's primary melee fighters - they can't get to the foes any more than the foes can get to the party. Whenever I used it as the party druid, all i got was 'take down that damn entangle please', so I turned to other spells, sigh.
In my group we would have requested "more entangle please!!", and just pulled our ranged weapons and had us a carnival shoot (entangle gives -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex, which is -4 net to ranged attacks and -2 AC), which makes them the sitting ducks against the party's ranged attackers. Since everyone in our group has at least a sling, it's good stuff. :P
Color spray does nothing to higher levels IIR. You can mess up a fire giant with 12" of grass with entangle
Color spray still stuns in a cone to enemies with 5 or more HD. It's like a good-for-bad sound burst, since sound burst is a 2nd level spell so it has a higher DC, a much higher range and does 1d8 damage, but color spray is a 1st level spell and has a much higher chance of being enhanced by Spell Focus (illusion) by an illusionist than a cleric does of enhancing sound burst with Spell Focus (evocation).
It's alright.
In my group we would have requested "more entangle please!!", and just pulled our ranged weapons and had us a carnival shoot (entangle gives -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex, which is -4 net to ranged attacks and -2 AC), which makes them the sitting ducks against the party's ranged attackers. Since everyone in our group has at least a sling, it's good stuff. :PMy book doesn't say 'foes', it says 'creatures', which we've always taken to mean ANY creatures, friend or foe. It is pretty powerful but it has its limitations. It doesn't stop those creatures from pulling out missile weapons (or spells) and firing at the party... just be slowed til they get out.
And it IS only 1st level, so how high can the save be? 11+stat mod... so it's make-able by many creatures.
And actually hinders all the party's primary melee fighters - they can't get to the foes any more than the foes can get to the party. Whenever I used it as the party druid, all i got was 'take down that damn entangle please', so I turned to other spells, sigh.
Don't forget cover, though.
My group want to kill the druid everytime he only thinks the word "entagle", most times it hurts the group more then the NSC (especially the melees). :)
In a 3.5 game I was in, a Druid cast Entangle and started picking off foes with her bow. Then one crit her with a longbow of their own, max damage. My Cleric with a penalty to Dex did not enjoy wading through Entangle and failing concentration checks to try to heal her.
Entangle is one of those spells I really wish was toned down. Not the effect of it. Just the size. Give me an entangle the size of obscuring mist, and I'm happy.
The official PRD says "creatures"; the unofficial one says "foes". So mind your sources.
It's been nerfed somewhat since 3.0 where the Escape Artist and Str DC was 20. That really was broken. It also had the ambiguous words "...cannot move...". So I suspect a lot of people remember the old 3e version and haven't noticed the subtle changes.
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Don't forget cover, though.In my group we would have requested "more entangle please!!", and just pulled our ranged weapons and had us a carnival shoot (entangle gives -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex, which is -4 net to ranged attacks and -2 AC), which makes them the sitting ducks against the party's ranged attackers. Since everyone in our group has at least a sling, it's good stuff. :PMy book doesn't say 'foes', it says 'creatures', which we've always taken to mean ANY creatures, friend or foe. It is pretty powerful but it has its limitations. It doesn't stop those creatures from pulling out missile weapons (or spells) and firing at the party... just be slowed til they get out.
And it IS only 1st level, so how high can the save be? 11+stat mod... so it's make-able by many creatures.
And actually hinders all the party's primary melee fighters - they can't get to the foes any more than the foes can get to the party. Whenever I used it as the party druid, all i got was 'take down that damn entangle please', so I turned to other spells, sigh.
What about cover, exactly? Nothing in entangle grants cover, so I'm confused as to what you mean.
The main hindrance to it is that its situational: you need grasses and shrubs around for it to work. For an adventurer in a city or a dungeon it doesn't work: so when it CAN work it should be getting more bang than most first level spells.
It both requires the right terrain area and the gigantic radius that you cannot reduce is just as likely to hinder allies (unless you use the d20pfsrd version, I guess). In the right group (heavy on the ranged firepower) and setting (mostly outdoors), it can be very good. In a game that's melee heavy party and mostly urban or dungeon crawling, it's completely worthless.
It's fine.
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This is from the 5th printing of the Core Rulebook.
Entangle
School transmutation; Level druid 1, ranger 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text; Spell Resistance: no
This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around
creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures
that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that
make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the
area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move
into the area must save immediately. Those that fail must end their
movement and gain the entangled condition. Entangled creatures
can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or
Escape Artist check. The DC for this check is equal to the DC of the
spell. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while
the effect lasts.
If the plants in the area are covered in thorns, those in the area
take 1 point of damage each time they fail a save against the entangle
or fail a check made to break free. Other effects, depending on the
local plants, might be possible at GM discretion.
Situationally, it's quite powerful.
When I run that again I will probably get rid of the squeezing penalty.
IN......
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The official PRD says "creatures"; the unofficial one says "foes". So mind your sources.
I was not aware that the errata for this one had not been applied on d20pfsrd.com. It has now.
...If you are underground, in a dungeon, in a desert, on a city street...it's useless. So let your druid shine while he can, because come the next chapter he'll be playing second fiddle.
That made me LOL a bit, Druid playing second fiddle because he can't cast entangle or use woodland stride...
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My group want to kill the druid everytime he only thinks the word "entagle", most times it hurts the group more then the NSC (especially the melees). :)all characters with an intelligence over 7 would know going anywhere without a ranged attack is a bad idea.
You'd be amazed. Back in 1st edition days, we all knew that every character should carry a melee weapon and ranged weapon everywhere, even if they sucked with them.
Upon returning to the game after a 20 year absence, I've been amazed at how many players make characters that don't have ANY ranged weapon. And these are often the most knowledgeable, experienced players, too. This just totally blows my mind. I'd never think of creating a character without at least a sling or some sort of ranged spell.
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Entangle was nerfed from 3.5. It used to be much more powerful.
Web is the stronger of these 2 spells now.
And Color Spray is way better than Entangle nowadays.
Web is a higher level spell. And the downside of Color Spray is the 15 foot range. If the bad guy makes the save, your squishy caster is in trouble.
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Web is a higher level spell. And the downside of Color Spray is the 15 foot range. If the bad guy makes the save, your squishy caster is in trouble.Entangle was nerfed from 3.5. It used to be much more powerful.
Web is the stronger of these 2 spells now.
And Color Spray is way better than Entangle nowadays.
I always take that chance. They are probably not going to save against my DC15 or higher, and since all of my characters have 14 CON minimum, I have 9 HP at level 1. If I get hit, I don't die. If I get hit by multiple creatures, I go into negatives but still live. If they get lucky and all of them save, so be it. Good far outweighs the bad.
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I always take that chance. They are probably not going to save against my DC15 or higher, and since all of my characters have 14 CON minimum, I have 9 HP at level 1. If I get hit, I don't die. If I get hit by multiple creatures, I go into negatives but still live. If they get lucky and all of them save, so be it. Good far outweighs the bad.Web is a higher level spell. And the downside of Color Spray is the 15 foot range. If the bad guy makes the save, your squishy caster is in trouble.Entangle was nerfed from 3.5. It used to be much more powerful.
Web is the stronger of these 2 spells now.
And Color Spray is way better than Entangle nowadays.
Oh, I never said it wasn't worth the risk. Color Spray is the first level 1 spell I took for my sorcerer.
I'm just pointing out that there's a downside to every spell, so claiming that Color Spray is way better than Entangle doesn't tell the whole story. Entangle has the advantage of being usable from a distance with minimal risk. Color Spray has a bigger impact on the fight, but also carries the the bigger risk because of its short range.
Entangle is a great spell but is limited to being useful mostly outdoors in terrain with significant plant life. Rocky mountains, deserts, tundra, rocks, or underground is a serious enough impediment to make it less than overpowered.
It's a great spell for an NPC druid protecting their woods though.
The main hindrance to it is that its situational: you need grasses and shrubs around for it to work. For an adventurer in a city or a dungeon it doesn't work: so when it CAN work it should be getting more bang than most first level spells.
The spell needs, "tall grass, weeds, [or] other plants." That's a pretty broad requirement.
Weeds growing in the cracks of city streets? ENTANGLE!
Potted plant in a room, or heck just outside a window? ENTANGLE!
Roots from surface plants growing from a cave ceiling? ENTANGLE!
Mosses and Lichens are plants, too. Heck, most fungi were considered plants up until the 19th century!
What about cover, exactly? Nothing in entangle grants cover, so I'm confused as to what you mean.
Although you can use entangle where there is only ground cover, shrubs, bushes and trees are just as common, and these will provide some cover if you choose to shoot the entangled.
best tactic is one missiler and one meleer with a reach weapon to deal with them as they fight their way free.
If tall grass is required, I would expect tall weeds to be required as well.
I rather like the idea of a druid hobbling around with five bonsai trees tied to his back, though....
I had a druid that used to carry around potted plants just so they could toss them into the middle of enemies and cast Entangle.
Thread necromancy much?