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It's this editions version of combat advantage.
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I know that one of the goals of PF2 is to be more streamlined and less complicated then PF1. But on some fronts I think things went a bit too far. One of those is the flat-footed condition.
I like that it now is a static penalty, and not depending on stats and gear of the penalized creature. Especially for GMs that is a huge boon.
But why does basically everything make you flat-footed? Prone, Flanked, Stunning Fist and Daze are all low level options of controlling the enemy. And now they are all incompatible with one another. It is of no use to flank an enemy if that enemy was already knocked down by an ally or dazed by the mage. That sometimes doesn't leave too much room for any tactics.
A related topic is the utter lack of more types of bonuses and penalties. I concur that 10 or more types like in PF1 was overkill. But just three? That is just not enough to be interesting anymore.
I do NOT miss the many types of bonuses and penalties of PF1...
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So, all the most effective PF1 groups I saw tend to use the 'stack 6 debuffs per target in the first round' tactic of trips, glitterdusts, witch hexes, flanking, grappling, etc. It had the habit of making fights 'over' while the enemies had most or full HP. It was slow, and fun for a while but could get grindy. I think PF2's looking better in still allowing individual debuffs, even promoting them, but having stacking be a little weaker.
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Everyone please remember that the ease of making people flat-footed is not at all a result of any amount of "influence" that may or may not have been leveraged against the fine people at Paizo. And anyone thinking to investigate such completely unfounded claims should keep in mind how easily they can be rendered flat-footed.
Sincerely, the Rogue's Guild.
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I do NOT miss the many types of bonuses and penalties of PF1...I know that one of the goals of PF2 is to be more streamlined and less complicated then PF1. But on some fronts I think things went a bit too far. One of those is the flat-footed condition.
I like that it now is a static penalty, and not depending on stats and gear of the penalized creature. Especially for GMs that is a huge boon.
But why does basically everything make you flat-footed? Prone, Flanked, Stunning Fist and Daze are all low level options of controlling the enemy. And now they are all incompatible with one another. It is of no use to flank an enemy if that enemy was already knocked down by an ally or dazed by the mage. That sometimes doesn't leave too much room for any tactics.
A related topic is the utter lack of more types of bonuses and penalties. I concur that 10 or more types like in PF1 was overkill. But just three? That is just not enough to be interesting anymore.
The vast number of bonus and penalty types needed to be curtailed, sure. But to only three? That's throwing the baby out with the bath water. I would rather have /some/ variety, since it enables a broader variety and combination of tactics.
Flanking in particular should not cause flat footed, and should be its own thing. Or have it give, yes, "combat advantage" and have that be its own thing separate from flat-footed.
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The vast number of bonus and penalty types needed to be curtailed, sure. But to only three? That's throwing the baby out with the bath water. I would rather have /some/ variety, since it enables a broader variety and combination of tactics.
Flanking in particular should not cause flat footed, and should be its own thing. Or have it give, yes, "combat advantage" and have that be its own thing separate from flat-footed.
I find the greatest advantage of PF2's approach to be that it's much easier to remember what types of bonuses you get. I used an example in another thread of how Inspire Courage combines with the Level 1 spell Bless. It's kind of a small nightmare.
The lack of stacking is part of the design goal of preventing wild variance in proficiencies at any given level, especially at high levels in PF1. Trip/flank/debuff being able to combo makes for more rocket tag-like situations, as Lyee mentions.
One would need to shift away from that design goal as well to do what you're asking, which I'm not inclined to favor.
Having more situations when rogues can get their Sneak Attack ability is also... nice.
The vast number of bonus and penalty types needed to be curtailed, sure. But to only three? That's throwing the baby out with the bath water. I would rather have /some/ variety, since it enables a broader variety and combination of tactics.
Flanking in particular should not cause flat footed, and should be its own thing. Or have it give, yes, "combat advantage" and have that be its own thing separate from flat-footed.
I find the greatest advantage of PF2's approach to be that it's much easier to remember what types of bonuses you get. I used an example in another thread of how Inspire Courage combines with the Level 1 spell Bless. It's kind of a small nightmare.
The lack of stacking is part of the design goal of preventing wild variance in proficiencies at any given level, especially at high levels in PF1. Trip/flank/debuff being able to combo makes for more rocket tag-like situations, as Lyee mentions.
One would need to shift away from that design goal as well to do what you're asking, which I'm not inclined to favor.
Having more situations when rogues can get their Sneak Attack ability is also... nice.
But if flanking is allowed to be separate, that's really as simple as saying "Sneak attack applies against targets you flank or that are flat-footed."
Flat footed is the low level AC debuff available to everyone, and probably expected to be active at all times on targets. During levels 6-10 someone in the party should have found a way to inflict Sluggish, the next AC debuff that will stack with flatfooted.
It's similar to shield, shield spell, parry weapon, crane stance, and cover not stacking. You decide how you get that bonus to AC, but it is an expected bonus.
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Because it's needed for characters to be able to get crits with some consistency. As others have said, it's expected by the system that you'll be leveraging this debuff a lot from lv1-20.
Also because making a bunch of different debuffs that reduce AC means you'll stack them for insanity.
We could use a bit more stuff, I guess, just not as much as before.
