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![Shield](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-shield.jpg)
Looking for suggestions for a game I'm running now. Let's say I have an character who was cursed with an immortality he doesn't want. He cannot die until he's fulfilled some very difficult and repugnant task. This immortality should be unpleasant in nature - maybe he's involuntarily become undead in some manner? It's got to be a nasty enough situation that he's going to want to try very hard to complete the task so that he can finally die and end his ordeal.
How would you handle it? What rules/spells/templates/bestiary entries etc would you invoke?
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Scythia |
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![Monk](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1118-Monk_90.jpeg)
The Curse of Innocent Tears
The bearer of this curse no longer ages naturally. Although they can still be affected by aging effects (gaining penalties as normal, but not bonuses), they cannot die from age. Any time the bearer of this curse would be reduced to zero HP or affected by any effect that would otherwise kill them, the damage or effect they have suffered is inflicted upon a child (the children of the bearer are chosen first, then children related to the bearer, then finally at random), and the bearer is mentally forced to experience the terror, anguish, and suffering the child experiences during this process. The process takes one round, and is considered a Death effect for the child, and the child cannot be returned to life by any means short of divine intervention so long as the bearer of this curse still lives. The child's stolen life energy restores the bearer to full health. The shock of this experience does 1d3 Constitution damage to the bearer and leaves them Shaken for 1 hour. Should the curse be lifted, the bearer may choose to relinquish their life in order to restore one child victim of their choice to life.
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sunbeam |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Curse of Innocent Tears
The bearer of this curse no longer ages naturally. Although they can still be affected by aging effects (gaining penalties as normal, but not bonuses), they cannot die from age. Any time the bearer of this curse would be reduced to zero HP or affected by any effect that would otherwise kill them, the damage or effect they have suffered is inflicted upon a child (the children of the bearer are chosen first, then children related to the bearer, then finally at random), and the bearer is mentally forced to experience the terror, anguish, and suffering the child experiences during this process. The process takes one round, and is considered a Death effect for the child, and the child cannot be returned to life by any means short of divine intervention so long as the bearer of this curse still lives. The child's stolen life energy restores the bearer to full health. The shock of this experience does 1d3 Constitution damage to the bearer and leaves them Shaken for 1 hour. Should the curse be lifted, the bearer may choose to relinquish their life in order to restore one child victim of their choice to life.
Got to congratulate you. That is a first rate plot hook.
Although I think it would probably make a better book than adventure module.
Maybe he writes the name of every child down that has died because of him on his skin? And talks to them in his restless sleep?
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CWheezy |
CON damage can't reduce you below 1, only Drain can.
If every child in the world is dead, then there's probably bigger problems to worry about.
You should check those rules again. You are thinking of PENALTY. Damage can go to zero. Most stats damage equal to your stat means unconscious, but con damage equal to your con stat equals DEAD.
So, the sick infinite wombo combo if you die due to, lets say, arsenic poisoning
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Shiroi |
I feel like doing both con and wis damage would be better, to represent physically taxing experiences and a stark loss of sanity.
You can also force a condition such as the blackened oracles curse, a constant pain that makes them resent their existence, possibly over their entire body instead of just arms (-4 to any check or roll modified by str or dex) and cast resurrection on them at midnight after they die, every time. They live in constant pain, and if they die they just wake up naked in a new body that's also in pain, knowing they failed whatever they were doing. Again.
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![Shield](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-shield.jpg)
Some good ideas here, but I need to keep this curse personal. Let's assume that this character is supremely apathetic and doesn't give a toss about anyone else, so dying children won't really factor into it.
Just to be clear: this is not for a PC. This is a retired PC coming back as an NPC antagonist.
Okay, if you've seen "The Big Lebowski": Imagine that instead of pissing on the Dude's rug, the henchmen stole it and it got shipped off to parts unknown, and that the Dude was cursed to eternally roam the earth until he got his original rug back, but his immortality was kind of half-arsed and provided all of the bad parts of immortality but none of the good. What would that look like and how would you express it in terms of rules?
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Cel'Daren |
![Nar'shinddah Sugimar](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/NarShindah.jpg)
Soulless with a dash of Can't die!
Some powerful Outsider, perhaps Asmodeus, has claim over said person's soul, and has it locked away in some horrific place. The body has just a sliver of their soul within, enough for them to retain their personality, emotions, and sensations. The link between the sliver of soul in the body and the rest of the soul means that the body is forced to experience all of the pain and horror its soul is undergoing while still having its own situation to deal with. The pain and torture of the soul prevents the body from any sort of natural rest. They can't sleep, they can't lie down for a minute, absolutely no rest, and the unnatural situation their body is in means that they don't technically need rest either but are still affected by exhaustion.
The powerful Outsider has some tasks it wants the Soulless to do, and is holding their Soul as reward for the job being done. Soulless person thus has to try and complete some grisly task, cannot rest yet feels every ounce of exhaustion they should, and maybe just to make it truly horrible for them their mostly-Soulless nature makes them perfectly Empathic. They feel all of the pain and suffering of those they must hurt/kill in order to go forward with their goal, in addition to the pain they feel from their soul's torture.
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SheepishEidolon |
![Ramidreju](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1133-Ramidreju_500.jpeg)
but his immortality was kind of half-arsed and provided all of the bad parts of immortality but none of the good. What would that look like and how would you express it in terms of rules?
Hmm, he could suffer a decaying body, like a character of venerable age, with the usual -6 penalty to physical stats and +3 to mental ones. Oracle's wasting curse could describe that also. In the worst case his body is totally rotten and he needs help by servants / machines / magic to manipulate his environment.
A template might help, e.g. Broken Soul.
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Amakawa Yuuto |
3.5 had a type of undead that did this - I forgot how they could be killed, but casting "break curse" was a necessary part of it.
And they were generally looking for a way to die, only obeying necromancers so they'd free them from their curse (and getting... unpleasant if the necromancer broke their part of the deal).
Also, every few minutes they'd just... start acting randomly for a while, and completely ignore their surroundings.
...to bad I completely forgot their name.
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![Aldern Foxglove](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/heads2.jpg)
Perhaps have it that the immortality was 'gifted' to him by a fey lord, celestial, demon, or devil yet makes it so that they are then bound by 'destiny' to serve whatever plans or purpose of these patrons.
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Perhaps make it so that they are hunted, bringing danger into their lives and others. Perhaps hunted by demons who wise to kill him and claim his soul as their own. A ill thought wish for vengeance and use of dark magic calling them, aiding him and cursing him with immortality, thus making it that he owes them a debt. Thus he constantly wonders, avoiding forming close relations with fear of having them hurt by his debtors while using every magical means to avoid detection.
... the above is a character idea of my own that I have never known how to implement. Especially since no core resource provides low level immortality, despite the more simple idea would merely being unable to naturally age while neither gaining either bonuses or penalties to stats. With this, he would still be able to be killed as normal thus any damage or attacks effecting him as normal.
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Skylancer4 |
![Ikrimah](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9529-Ikrimah.jpg)
3.5 had a type of undead that did this - I forgot how they could be killed, but casting "break curse" was a necessary part of it.
And they were generally looking for a way to die, only obeying necromancers so they'd free them from their curse (and getting... unpleasant if the necromancer broke their part of the deal).
Also, every few minutes they'd just... start acting randomly for a while, and completely ignore their surroundings....to bad I completely forgot their name.
I think there is a list of 3.5 undead at GitP?
Punch in "3.5 d20 undead list" or something similar to Google, that should get you there. Maybe it will jog your memory.
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Ya'akov |
![Harrowed Summoning](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9446-Summoner_500.jpeg)
Wolfsnap wrote:but his immortality was kind of half-arsed and provided all of the bad parts of immortality but none of the good. What would that look like and how would you express it in terms of rules?Hmm, he could suffer a decaying body, like a character of venerable age, with the usual -6 penalty to physical stats and +3 to mental ones. Oracle's wasting curse could describe that also. In the worst case his body is totally rotten and he needs help by servants / machines / magic to manipulate his environment.
A template might help, e.g. Broken Soul.
At that rate you could eventually turn him into a demi-lich; essentially you'd be just a floating head. You could tweak it a little to fit.
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Amakawa Yuuto |
I think there is a list of 3.5 undead at GitP?
Punch in "3.5 d20 undead list" or something similar to Google, that should get you there. Maybe it will jog your memory.
Wasn't in that list, and not in the monster finder either - but I did find it with a general google search.
It's the Curst, from "Monsters of Faerun". Created by casting Bestow Curse and Wish/Miracle in close succession on a victim, they're... odd undead. They can't be turned, and they can be healed by regular healing magic, but they can't be killed by damage, only by Remove Curse, which causes them to "crumble to dust with a smile".
Also, they're a template, not a creature, so you can make variant Curst.
This template is nearly identical to the one in the book, and mostly just irons out a few kinks - it's probably a bit better (as in "easier to adjudicate" - it actually gains a few penalties, more ways to kill it, and never mention that regular healing magic works on them - but the original template had a few a bit harder to adjudicate things in it, like just giving every Curst a 1d4 slam attack without adjusting for size, 9 out of 10 Curst getting a fixed Intelligence score of 8 while the last 1 out of 10 retain their int scores, and making no mention about how their "5% chance for craziness every 10 minutes" should be handled in combat...).
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Shiroi |
If you don't have something specific that was stolen from him, it could be his Destiny. The abstract concept. All of it. Everything is destined to die, to fade, to end. He was destined for greatness. Destined to be a king, destined to save the world or rule it... But his destiny was stolen from him, denied. He cannot change, move forwards, in any way. He cannot grow as a person, form lasting or important relationships, achieve his goals or dreams, or die. If he is slain, he awakened unharmed but shaken somewhere nearby. Mechanically his affliction is that he can accomplish *nothing* of importance in his life, because anything that might remotely resemble a destiny is drained from his future. This means he cannot level up (though he could grow stronger through equipment if you needed), cannot gain any further templates, cannot critical (because he's not destined for the kind of victory which hangs in the balance of a well placed strike), and cannot kill anything which would make a significant impact in the world. He is basically restricted to being very unpleasant and in many ways mediocre until he can regain his destiny.
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Adagna |
Some good ideas here, but I need to keep this curse personal. Let's assume that this character is supremely apathetic and doesn't give a toss about anyone else, so dying children won't really factor into it.
Just to be clear: this is not for a PC. This is a retired PC coming back as an NPC antagonist.
Okay, if you've seen "The Big Lebowski": Imagine that instead of pissing on the Dude's rug, the henchmen stole it and it got shipped off to parts unknown, and that the Dude was cursed to eternally roam the earth until he got his original rug back, but his immortality was kind of half-arsed and provided all of the bad parts of immortality but none of the good. What would that look like and how would you express it in terms of rules?
For a curse like this to matter they have to care about something. Someone who is supremely apathetic isn't going to care about any kind of curse. Why would he care about a rug if he doesn't care about innocent children being killed? Your hook here for the curse is to define what this character cares about. Until you do that it's an impossible feat.
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MrCharisma |
![Aspis Agent](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9248-Aspis_90.jpeg)
Dark Souls style!
He can die, but his body reforms at the nearest bonfire (or other appropriate body-reforming-site).
The way I did this for Pathfinder was to make it that every time s/he dies s/he loses 1 point in a random stat (1d6, 1=Str, 2=Dex, etc).
If a player loses a total of 3 in any one stat - or if the character gets -1 to every stat from repeated death - they lose their minds and become hollows.
Hero Points = Humanity (if you want to give them a way out) and can be used to reverse the effects of 1 death (eg. negate a single -1 to a stat). How do you get Humanity (Hero Points)? Finish a quest of course! (or steal some from someone living if you want to give them that option).
I'm sure there are rules for madness somewhere if you want to add those in, I just left that to the players.
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![Shield](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-shield.jpg)
For a curse like this to matter they have to care about something. Someone who is supremely apathetic isn't going to care about any kind of curse. Why would he care about a rug if he doesn't care about innocent children being killed? Your hook here for the curse is to define what this character cares about. Until you do that it's an impossible feat.
What I'm looking for is something like a Geas with an undead component - this guy just wants to sit back and chill, but there are cosmic forces who keep throwing him into dangerous situations that he doesn't want to be in and is incapable of handling, in service to a grand destiny that he wants no part of, as part of a prophecy that he doesn't care about but is doomed to fulfill no matter how hard he tries to ignore it.
And on top of that, he can't die, despite the fact that he's constantly getting the crap beat out of him by people who are trying to prevent or hasten this big destiny that he doesn't give a toss about.
It doesn't sound like there are any obvious existing mechanics to cover that kind of thing, so I may just have to make something up.
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sunbeam |
Well just make something up as you say.
I don't want to put any dig at you in this, but people have been doing stuff like this for a long time, going back to the 1e days (and I guess the OD&D days), and in 2e and 3x.
Kind of think people are less likely to even think of doing something like this now with this rules heavy edition of the game.
But just make something up. Not everything has to be in a splatbook.
And don't feel the slightest compunction about changing something on the fly either. You don't have to generate the perfectly balanced NPC with the perfect backstory like Athena emerging from the head of Zeus or something. If you start out with the guy being from ancient Atlantis and decide it would be cooler to have him from Lemuria, go with it.
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The Goat Lord |
![Baphomet](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9077-Baphomet_90.jpeg)
But what happens when he gets "killed". I like the idea that this guy has died multiple times and come back, or else suffered damage that WOULD have killed him several times over.
How about the nearest pregnant woman immediately goes into labor and gives birth to his fresh new body. He grows into his adult form in minutes, with all his memories, and runs naked into the wilderness. This approach would leave a trail of clues to follow as witnesses report the creepy event.
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![Shield](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-shield.jpg)
But just make something up. Not everything has to be in a splatbook.
Trust me - I have no issue with making stuff up.
I'm just being lazy about this and felt like appealing to the hive mind for ideas.
How about the nearest pregnant woman immediately goes into labor and gives birth to his fresh new body. He grows into his adult form in minutes, with all his memories, and runs naked into the wilderness. This approach would leave a trail of clues to follow as witnesses report the creepy event.
See, I would never have thought of that in a million years. You can always count on roleplayers to come up with something truly weird.
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sunbeam |
The Goat Lord wrote:How about the nearest pregnant woman immediately goes into labor and gives birth to his fresh new body. He grows into his adult form in minutes, with all his memories, and runs naked into the wilderness. This approach would leave a trail of clues to follow as witnesses report the creepy event.See, I would never have thought of that in a million years. You can always count on roleplayers to come up with something truly weird.
In Paizo's take on this genre, it would probably be a magic tumor that appears on someone suddenly, then grows rapidly.
At that point the reincarnated tumor runs off naked into the woods.
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The Godd*mn Avatar |
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![Penanggalen](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1120-Penanggalen_90.jpeg)
I am a fan of Highlander, so the immortal protagonist is always a favorite trope of mine.
But they also did something interesting for a character called Ashildr in Doctor Who. A mortal brain is not designed to hold multiple lifetimes of memories.
So perhaps each time he dies, or would have died. He wakes up, fully healed (Maybe half his total health) and he loses parts of his memory. Not full memory mind you but perhaps his oldest memories disappear.
The character in Doctor Who forgot her own name, later calling herself Me out of simplicity. She kept scores of books to record her memories as she realized she was going to lose them.
Imagine a wizard or something who has been around for thousands of years with libraries full of journals. His adventures and his discoveries. Maybe that is a plot hook. The wizard had to find and decipher his own journals from years back to rediscover a long forgotten foe or location of something he hide that will be useful now to the party.
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Adagna |
Adagna wrote:For a curse like this to matter they have to care about something. Someone who is supremely apathetic isn't going to care about any kind of curse. Why would he care about a rug if he doesn't care about innocent children being killed? Your hook here for the curse is to define what this character cares about. Until you do that it's an impossible feat.What I'm looking for is something like a Geas with an undead component - this guy just wants to sit back and chill, but there are cosmic forces who keep throwing him into dangerous situations that he doesn't want to be in and is incapable of handling, in service to a grand destiny that he wants no part of, as part of a prophecy that he doesn't care about but is doomed to fulfill no matter how hard he tries to ignore it.
And on top of that, he can't die, despite the fact that he's constantly getting the crap beat out of him by people who are trying to prevent or hasten this big destiny that he doesn't give a toss about.
It doesn't sound like there are any obvious existing mechanics to cover that kind of thing, so I may just have to make something up.
For inspiration look at "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stphen R. Donaldson. You are basically describing the premise for the series.
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Wei Ji the Learner |
![Jakaw Razorbeak](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9059-Jakaw_90.jpeg)
Wolfsnap wrote:For inspiration look at "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stphen R. Donaldson. You are basically describing the premise for the series.
What I'm looking for is something like a Geas with an undead component - this guy just wants to sit back and chill, but there are cosmic forces who keep throwing him into dangerous situations that he doesn't want to be in and is incapable of handling, in service to a grand destiny that he wants no part of, as part of a prophecy that he doesn't care about but is doomed to fulfill no matter how hard he tries to ignore it.
And on top of that, he can't die, despite the fact that he's constantly getting the crap beat out of him by people who are trying to prevent or hasten this big destiny that he doesn't give a toss about.
It doesn't sound like there are any obvious existing mechanics to cover that kind of thing, so I may just have to make something up.
Except for the fact that Thomas Covenant *did* die. And it was his own gosh-darned fault for trying to take the 'easy way' to do something in the earlier books, if memory serves?
*notes that he hasn't read past White Gold Wielder, so please forgive any inconsistencies in narrative.*
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GM Rednal |
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If you really want to motivate them to end it, make them Eternal. They can't level up or anything until they get rid of it. XD And if each time they die, they're thrust back into the situation they're supposed to resolve...
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Errant Mercenary |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PF21-22.jpg)
Had an NPC who kept washing up on the same shores after being killed. He would start his life anew, with all his memories, but his curse would slowly drive him insane, filling him with delusions of grandeur. Eventually he'd proclaim himself a living god. Then he'd get killed by either adventurers or him getting in too deep in hubris. Wake up on the shores..realise this will happen all over again and there is no escape. PCs had the option to help him out.
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Drahliana Moonrunner |
![Shalelu Andosana](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9050-Shalelu_90.jpeg)
Had an NPC who kept washing up on the same shores after being killed. He would start his life anew, with all his memories, but his curse would slowly drive him insane, filling him with delusions of grandeur. Eventually he'd proclaim himself a living god. Then he'd get killed by either adventurers or him getting in too deep in hubris. Wake up on the shores..realise this will happen all over again and there is no escape. PCs had the option to help him out.
There's a tv series about a guy trying to end his immortality. Every time he dies he comes to life naked in NYC's East River.
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Seneh Gibbraneh |
I like the idea of him reincarnating each time he dies.
Waking up in a new body each time.
Just when he get used to a body someone or something kills him. It is hard to gain levels when you die every three weeks...
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Shoga |
I would say he was cursed and all his stats were reduced to less than 10, but he would have Fast healing 5. He also would have forgotten he knows how to use any weapon or armor. His initial awakening would be in a pacifistic temple where any conflict goes against the temple. He has no knowledge of how he came there and the monk/priests just say he showed up one day without any knowledge of who he was.
He has lived at the temple for a year, still without knowledge of who he is when the temple is attacked to find him. But he wants to honor the temple and runs away so as not to cause conflict.
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Prince of Shades |
![Shadow](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Plot-shadow.jpg)
I would say he was cursed and all his stats were reduced to less than 10, but he would have Fast healing 5. He also would have forgotten he knows how to use any weapon or armor. His initial awakening would be in a pacifistic temple where any conflict goes against the temple. He has no knowledge of how he came there and the monk/priests just say he showed up one day without any knowledge of who he was.
He has lived at the temple for a year, still without knowledge of who he is when the temple is attacked to find him. But he wants to honor the temple and runs away so as not to cause conflict.
So your suggestion was to basically make the character unplayable?
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Euryale |
![Medusa](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1126-Medusa_500.jpeg)
This idea may not be what you're looking for exactly, but I thought it'd be better to share just in case it helped.
So, he has a "pull" towards the quest. The pull, at the beginning of each life cycle, is mental. An annoying gibbering in the corner of the brain - difficult to ignore. Slowly, it would become physical as well. As he aged past his mortal time, his insides would rot, and in their place would form the feeling of multiple spindly legs dashing around where his stomach was; this feeling would grow and grow, furthering the strength of a push towards his goal. Later still, the feeling would spread into the other parts of his rotting, corpse like body. Insects of all different species would crawl through his tear ducts onto his pale, rot-riddled face. If he still hadn't completed his task, the insects would burst through his body in one excruciating act, and they would devour it. A short time later, they would remake the body as if it was new, and he could look forward to the entire process again. Even being slain would not set him free, for no matter the death, he is recreated.