So one thing I couldnt help but notice is that it seems there's almost a slower start to combat vs pathfinder. Like even with quick draw, you can't get a full attack off, and certain things need a turn of setup to pull off something cool the following round, from Trick Attack helping your next turn, to clever feint being something that helps you next turn, and I can't help but start to wonder if it's intentional.
From my limited experience DMing, and from stories our regular DM tells us, he often lets a monster survive another round or two so that he can let it do the one scary thing it can do, as often we kill it too quickly for it to really seem like a threat. Given that it takes a turn or two to activate most things, I can't help but wonder-Think it was intentional to give monsters a round or two to try to pull off their tricks? I mean, it makes sense in my head, and explains why sometimes things seem slow to get moving in terms of getting abilities in full swing. If so, cool, cause now monsters will have a round or two to really do their thing before dropping, and if not,I'm glad, cause they'll still have that chance.
I'll give ya Quick Draw, but not sure what setup time you're referring to with Trick Attack or Clever Feint.
The Trick Attack is a full action that has several moving parts like character movement, a skill check to make the target flat-footed, and then an attack roll that benefits from the previously mentioned condition if the skill check was successful. Given the Operative's increased speed in movement, they can often close the range gap, trick their opponent, and get their attack off in the same action. They don't get the flat-footed benefit as a duration until 4th level which is intended as a group benefit (and later you can expand options for more personal damage like swapping the effect to a bleed or conditions like stun etc...).
Clever Feint is better used as a team booster at first. The effect *only* applies to the Envoy if they fail which isn't ideal but neither is it the end of the world. At 4th level, the Envoy can pick up a companion ability, Clever Attack that allows the Envoy to gain the benefits of Clever Feint before their attack lands with the same standard action. If they are successful with the bluff check, then their allies still gain the benefit as normal.
Even if there are some ramp up abilities for other classes, everything takes a bit longer to drop due to the expanded health pool for everyone.
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I think you're right TheGoofyGE3K, and as a GM I love it.
So many times at mid-level Pathfinder, it takes me longer to fully digest all the options a monster has than it does for the PCs to get into position and Full Attack it to death. I'm lucky if it gets to use its cool thing.
I'd much rather have a little back-and-forth, or get to use/see the NPCs execute their strategy rather than 'It fails its save, it takes 150 damage from Full Attack, it dies.'
I love it too! Was originally annoyed by a few things as a player who sometimes can cast 3 powerful spells as an arcanist who is having far too much fun with an item our DM gave us, I'm all about maximizing my turn while also holding back to not kill other player fun and to let the monsters do stuff. Getting to go all out while still letting creatures do their thing appeals to me, gets to be more of a challenge
I'll give ya Quick Draw, but not sure what setup time you're referring to with Trick Attack or Clever Feint.
The Trick Attack is a full action that has several moving parts like character movement, a skill check to make the target flat-footed, and then an attack roll that benefits from the previously mentioned condition if the skill check was successful. Given the Operative's increased speed in movement, they can often close the range gap, trick their opponent, and get their attack off in the same action. They don't get the flat-footed benefit as a duration until 4th level which is intended as a group benefit (and later you can expand options for more personal damage like swapping the effect to a bleed or conditions like stun etc...).
Clever Feint is better used as a team booster at first. The effect *only* applies to the Envoy if they fail which isn't ideal but neither is it the end of the world. At 4th level, the Envoy can pick up a companion ability, Clever Attack that allows the Envoy to gain the benefits of Clever Feint before their attack lands with the same standard action. If they are successful with the bluff check, then their allies still gain the benefit as normal.
Even if there are some ramp up abilities for other classes, everything takes a bit longer to drop due to the expanded health pool for everyone.
With Trick Attack, I was thinking more of Debilitating Trick-use trick attack to make him flat-footed, then maybe full attack the next round.
With Clever Feint, same thing, use Standard this turn to get an advantage next turn. Yes, both of these effects also help allies, but also give you a bigger advantage on your second turn.
Between the loss of iterative attacks, the un-randomization of health values, and the slightly more stable growth of damage ability over time via increasing dice numbers and +level bonuses from specialization, Starfinder definitely seems to be more focused on making combat a little slower and more methodical, and I look forward to it!
Pathfinder's metagame so often revolved around maximizing full attacks, usually at range, to the point where as a GM i had to bend over backwards to create environments where fights would have some element of risk to them! While Starfinder's certainly made ranged attacks more ubiquitous, it's definitely gonna be easier to make combat feel less like a one-shot shootout.
Long time trpg GM here. In the Starfinder games I've run so far (8-12 or so) it feels like there are more combat rounds in total per combat, but each player takes less time during their turn. It feels tighter and faster paced to me. The fact that we are able to run more encounters per session seems to support this assessment.