Hi there,
I'm currently working on a Collection of Monsters, NPCs and Ships for my Starfinder group (we normally rotate the DM role from time to time and I want to help my friends by providing some basic monsters etc.). My plan is to get a small Collection from CR/Level 1 to ~10.
The monster conversion is not the big problem (the rules are really simple and the SRD has a TON of monsters). But I have a problem:
I get a little bit more confused by the NPC (or Monster with Armor/weapon) conversion.
The Question is should I stick to the basic damage which is written in the SRD or should I change the NPCs weapon/armor to a SF weapon/armor with an Item Level equal the CR?
I think to keep the NPCs challenging at APL = CR the weapons/armor should be adapted.
What do you guys think? How does the weapon/armor affect a NPCs/Monster CR? How should it be converted?
I took a look at the First Contact book and now I'm even more confused...
The attack/skill numbers did not match up with the gear and stats of the character.
e.g. the Space Pirate Captain - CR 4
KAC 18 EAC 16
Armor: defrex hide (KAC +5, EAC +5, Max Dex +4)
Dex: +3
Based on this stats she should have a KAC & EAC of 18 (10+3+5)
Ranged Attack +9 => BAB +6
Melee Attack +12 (Str +5) => BAB +7
?????
Acrobatics +11 (Dex+3) => 5 Ranks
Atlehtics +11 (Str+5) => 3 Ranks
Intimidate +16 (Cha+1) => 12 Ranks ???
Pilot +11 (Dex+3) = 5 Ranks
While it fits for Acrobatics, Athletics and Pilot, it seems total off for Intimidation.
Can someone explain me how to create challenging NPCs for my campaign, without winging everything?
And why in what-evers-name didn't Paizo simply use the same rules/calculations for NPCs as for players? Why do they changed it?
If you have Unchained, it's my understanding they basically used the monster-npc scaling system from there.
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NPCs are built in a completely different manner in Starfinder than PCs are, taking a base set of stats per CR and then modifying them with a role, and templates for things like race and class. The creators have stated that these stat-blocks are explicitly designed to have better attack bonuses and worse AC than PCs of equivalent level, for a variety of good and useful metagame reasons (making summons more useful, making minions more threatening, makinhg mind control stuff better for PCs to use and worse for NPCs to use, etc.).
The exact methodology behind all this is going to be in Alien Archive, which will then happily give us all the ability to create our own monsters and NPCs by the rules.
Until then, we have no real idea how it works and trying to design NPCs as if they were PCs will result in things being extremely wonky.
So for now we can only guess and hope that the encounters we design are the level we want them to be? Instead of simply use the PC creation rules for NPCs (which would be logical: why should a Vesk Soldier have different stats if it's played by the PC the an NPC with the same experience?)...
Not sure why Paizo at least put the basic rules in the core rule book. At the moment we have to rely on the Adventure Path or Scenarios and it become very hard to design your own campaign.
*not happy*
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So for now we can only guess and hope that the encounters we design are the level we want them to be? Instead of simply use the PC creation rules for NPCs (which would be logical)...
Not sure why Paizo didn't put the basic rules in the core rule book, this way you have to rely on the Adventure Path or Scenarios and it become very hard to design your own campaign.
*not happy*
Eh. It's about the same situation as being between when a Corebook and Bestiary comes out. That's not ideal, but it's also not all that much time.
Alien Archive is the Bestiary, and comes out in a bit over a month. It fixes this. Yes, it's necessary to do homebrew stuff, but let's be honest you need the Bestiary to do that in Pathfinder, too.
Please note, when D&D releases a new edition there is also a month (if not more) between the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and the Monster Manual.
Your right, but what do I do in the meantime with my group?
If I need a mercenary, soldier, mob boss or operative NPC? Simply pick PF monsters convert them and call them "NPC"? How do I get the numbers right (they seems to be off)?
Sure PF & DnD didn't release the Bestiary at the same time, but DnD provided some basic monsters in the Players Handbook and PF had rules to create NPCs.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Starfinder system, but currently it's really hard to get your own campaign running. :(
There's First Contact, an Adventure path book, and at least a handful of SFS scenarios out already.
It seems like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. :-)
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Possible :D (That's something I'm really good at... unfortunately).
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Well, I roughed out some guidleines for NPC/Monster creation in the meantime, they're not perfect but they line up okay with the creatures we've got so far:
DeadManWalking, or anyone else here - do you have a clear, easily defined formula for ACs, attack, and damage outside of armor to use?
Though I've done okay in some minor conversion work, the actual numbers are way off the ones presented, so far, so I'd appreciate some sort of system to work with, even if it's not the final product; unfortunately, my time is short enough that I lack the mental "space" to do it myself at present.
Based on what creatures we have, which are limited, it looks very much like KAC is around the Pathfinder Monster Creation Rules AC by CR. EAC is one or two points lower.
That's total AC mind you. You then, on creatures that wear armor, give them armor of a level equal to their CR or thereabouts, and, if they're somehow not wearing armor, subtract it.
So that's AC.
Attack bonus seems to also go by the Monster Creation table, but add +2 CR or so (so a CR 4 should have +12/+8), and all seem to have a 'high' bonus in whichever of melee or ranged attacks they're good at and a 'low' one in the other category. These all vary by up to a couple of points depending on role (thuggish creatures often have a bit better than this, for example).
Damage can be done by just giving an appropriate weapon of level equal to their CR and then adding their CR to damage (on top of Str if it's a melee weapon). Even creatures without weapons should probably have damage dice in the same range as this. Most should have one attack, though two at a 'low attack' bonus is also valid.
HP are probably trickiest, but going by the same chart and sometimes adding +1 or +2 CR seems likely to be close-ish.
So you could use those and make something serviceable if not ideal.
In terms of skills there's actually an official formula in the corebook: 4 + (1.5xCR) for skills they're pretty good at and 9 + (1.5xCR) for skills they're experts in. Round down, but some characters get small bonuses on top of that.
Thanks a lot.
Using your guidlines I created this CR 4 Encounter for my group (APL 3, four characters):
3x Mobsters - CR 1/2
Medium Humanoid – Chaotic Neutral
Initiative: +2 Perception -1
Sense: N/A
Defense
KAC: 16 HP: 22
EAC: 15
Fort/Ref/Will: +3 / +2 / -1
Offense
Speed: Speed 30 ft.
Attacks
- Melee +4 Club (1d6+3 B)
- Ranged +5 Scattergun,utility (1d4+1 P, blast)
Stats & Skills
Attr.: +3 / +2 / 0 / 0 / -1 / 0
Skills: Athletics +9, Intimidate +9, Bluff +4
Equipment
Club, Scattergun (utility), Freebooter Armor I, 1x Frag Grenade I, 100 credits
1x Operative - CR 3
Medium Human – Neutral Evil
Initiative: +3 Perception +10
Sense: Dark-Vision (EQ)
Defense
KAC: 18 HP: 55
EAC: 17
Fort/Ref/Will: +4 / +8 / +4
Offense
Speed: Speed 40 ft.
Attacks
- Melee +12 D. Sword, tactical 1d6+5 S
- Ranged +8 Acid Dart Rifle (1d8+3 A&P)
Stats & Skills
Attr.: +2 / +3 / +2 / 0 / -1 / +1
Skills: Athletics +8, Acrobatics +12, Stealth +12,
Equipment
Serum of Healing MK II, Carbon skin (graphite) + Infrared Sensors, Acid Dart Rifle, 20 Darts, 300 credits
Special Qualities:
Holographic Clone, Uncanny Mobility (Operative Tricks)
The combat will hapen in an Atrium, the 3 Mobster will hang around (so the player should have the suprise round), while the operative will stay in the back.
Once the combat starts the Mobsters will simply cover and attack while the operative will stay in th back try to snipe some players. When enganged in melee (we have a Armor Storm Vesk Soldier) he will switch to the carbon blade, use the holograms and try to hit and run.
What do you think?
Possible :D (That's something I'm really good at... unfortunately).
All good, I just wanted to provide perspective. :-)
No worries!
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What do you think?
The mobsters mostly look reasonable, though if you've got it, Incident At Absalom Station has CR 1/2 gang members, which would probably work fine.
However, their KAC is way too high. At CR 1/2 they should have a 12 at most. Their HP are also higher than the 20 a CR 1 space pirate has, I'd drop them to 12 or 13 HP. Remember, you don't inherently need to add Dex to AC any more on NPCs, that's not how they work.
At first blush the Operative's attack looks really high for a CR 3. +10/+7 is what my above guidelines would indicate and what they have now is equal to the CR 4 Space Pirate Captain (a more martial figure in the first place). Their KAC is also equal to the CR 4 captain, and should probaly be more like 15 or 16, and their HP is higher and should be more like 40 at most.
I'd drop the Operative's attacks to the above +10/+7 but add in Trick Attack (that's clearly part of whatever Operative Template there is based on the Sarcesian) at +1d8. That makes their offense a little more Operative-y without removing the punch.
On the other hand skills are a little low, I think. Acrobatics and Stealth should be +13 by my math. Maybe +14 since Operatives get skill bonuses.
Thanks a lot.
Still have problems with getting the right numbers. This will help me a lot. :)