Yet Another How to Begin Thread


Kingmaker


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Hello all, I've been reading through this forum a lot lately looking for ideas on how to spruce up my upcoming Kingmaker campaign. I've found lots of good ideas, many of which I plan on implementing. That said, I'm always looking for new and better ideas. I've heard that foreshadowing is a very important throughout the game and needs to be added, but as it stands I only have the first (and soon the second and third) books in the AP, so I'm not certain of everything that should be included. What are some important things you would be sure to include in a new game of Kingmaker, foreshadowing related or not?


This is a difficult question to answer.
My best suggestion is to lay out an outline of how you want your campaign to run.
For example, you may be running it as written, with no modifications, changes, etc. - in that case, the outline is done for you and you can see what needs to be foreshadowed.
I am getting ready to run KM for the second time. The first time I ran it completely "by the book" as I was running it as the books were being released.
Now, I have all these amazing resources from the messageboards and I want to make this run completely different than my first. I am currently outlining what I want to do with the campaign, picking the ideas from the boards that I feel my players will enjoy the most.
Once I have that done, I will be able to see where I need to drop hints, clues, etc. for my players.
So, the first question is: are you running it as written, or will you be using modifications and ideas from other sources?
I would STRONGLY suggest making changes to the game, based on what types of players you have, and what you think they would enjoy.


My strongest suggestion would be to spend the first two books throwing out a lot of lures for your players. Exploration, ancient mysteries, building, game of thrones in Brevoy. Since which things they bite on, which they don't care about. Then structure your plans accordingly.


My main suggestion is get all the books first and read through them for a few reasons.

1) Weaving PC backgrounds into the story. I always love doing this as my player's feel more involved on a personal level with the NPCs, environs and overall story. This is slightly more difficult in Kingmaker as written because of the beginning plot hook which is fairly weak, imho (an in the background charter to explore a new area essentially). I also don't just like to simply resolve a PCs story into any specific book, I'd rather unfold more through multiple chapters.
Knowing the environs coming in later books will allow you to tailor these specific happenings and tie-ins.

2) Foreshadowing the BBEG gradually is a good thing. As to how much foreshadowing to dole out? This largely depends on your style of DMing and having all the chapters will help with this.

3) You may not like a later chapter that you still haven't seen. It's obviously more helpful knowing this beforehand if you've read through them all. This allows you to plan changes (or do away with completely) with certain chapters. There are a ton of suggestions on the boards of enhancing/extending any given chapter, some would even be able to replace a chapter. For example if you didn't like Varnhold Vanishing, you could substitute Neil Spicer's external module "Realm of the Fellknight Queen" here, etc. I love Varnhold btw, it's just an example.

TBH, it's a coincidence for me, but usually chapter 5s of some of the Paizo APs (for example making chapter 5 of Carrion Crown less Underworld ported to an RPG) are the ones needing more adjustment IMHO. It's mainly because I'm not a fan of most subsystems, I'm the Kingdom management and Mass Combat in the background kind of guy.
Chapter 5 of Kingmaker has quite a few mass combat encounters and skipping these would be an XP deficit. Also, Irovetti's Castle has a bazillion doors on the main floor map, some of these rooms are like closets (and are empty IIRC), this would be a MASSIVE slog as well as a tactical mapping/encounter nightmare if your group maps everything out. This would likely be my heaviest alteration. Streamlining the Castle, especially the overly populated non-essential, repeat encounters would likely leave PCs behind the XP curve as well. I'd rather have a more sparsely mapped Castle with parts of, say Mike Shel's "Tomb of the Iron Medusa" below, or something similar.
Late Edit*** - Chapter 5 of Ironfang Invasion from my reading of the blurb, has some fey based antagonist iirc, this would be a great addition to War of the River Kings. I may pick this up as this main antagonist can be yet another flunkie of Nyrissa which fits great thematically and would solve any XP deficit of my version of a stripped down Irovetti castle. YMMV, as my idea is sight unseen for the moment.

Overall, Plan ahead is my suggestion. :)

Sovereign Court

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Do something right in the beginning (like a send off party) so PCs know who the other three groups Brevoy is sending into the Stolen Lands - Drelev, Varn, and the Iron ... Medusas (?). Knowing who esle is out there makes it a lot more meaningful later when players meet them again.

Find a way to foreshadow the BBG better. Weave little clues linking all the minor bad guys to her somehow.

Take a look at the crazy dude's journal/fairy tale from Ch 6 ... Zuddiger's Picnic or something like that. Start working that in from Ch 1, a page found here, kids singing it there. It might provide a backbone for some of the storytelling, and would certainly make the last chapter make more sense.

If you're going to use the festival/competition in Pitax, move it up sooner. It doesn't make sense for PCs to be rules and competitors. Do it early when they are just gaining recognition. You could hold it a second time, later, when the PC are full fledged rulers, and have players run secondary characters, not there regular ruler PCs.


It depends on your style - I am a bit like pennywit, I chuck out loads of hooks and see which ones the party bite on.

For example, my group (just towards the end of the first book) have found a 'treasure map' (it is a long story, but they asked for one in the middle of a joke) so I gave them one. It is a lot less of a treasure map than they think it is, it actually marks danger spots on a halfling Bellflower trail from Mivon to Brevoy. But they should find treasure at the various danger spots.

IF they go for it, I'll build some extra story or pull in some extra modules that build on it. If not - they might bite at what ever else I throw them next :) If they don't take and interest, I'll try something else later.

If there is something I really want to explore, I'll throw out half-a-dozen different hooks for the same thing - just to see if I can get the party to bite :)


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TRUlyjuST wrote:
Hello all, I've been reading through this forum a lot lately looking for ideas on how to spruce up my upcoming Kingmaker campaign. I've found lots of good ideas, many of which I plan on implementing. That said, I'm always looking for new and better ideas. I've heard that foreshadowing is a very important throughout the game and needs to be added, but as it stands I only have the first (and soon the second and third) books in the AP, so I'm not certain of everything that should be included. What are some important things you would be sure to include in a new game of Kingmaker, foreshadowing related or not?

Related to the overall plot, if you're sticking with what's published, I would recommend (as do many others) adding mentions of the BBEG throughout the first 5 books. The DM is aware of her via background information, but most likely the players will not see that material. You don't necessarily need to know much at this stage, other than there is a powerful faerie who has an interest in the Stolen Lands.

Also I feel like the setup is a bit of a bait-and-switch for the players. The Player's Guide talks a lot about Brevoy, the noble houses, etc. and the actual adventure features almost none of that. So if you and your group want to get into the politics, keep in mind that you will probably end up diverging greatly from the published adventures. And if you don't get into the politics, the players should be aware of that because IMO they're set up to think it'll be a prominent feature.

Finally, I would say that the "bosses" of each chapter are far too passive. Many of the AP chapters start off with an attack, and then the final foe sits in their lair and waits for the PCs to come knocking. Make them proactive! They have goals (if not, give them some) and they should be trying to carry them out. The Stag Lord goes after Oleg's. Hargulka gathers a troll army to kill the settlers. And so on. Make the world a living, breathing place that responds to the PCs' incursion into this wild land.


Spatula wrote:
TRUlyjuST wrote:


Finally, I would say that the "bosses" of each chapter are far too passive. Many of the AP chapters start off with an attack, and then the final foe sits in their lair and waits for the PCs to come knocking. Make them proactive! They have goals (if not, give them some) and they should be trying to carry them out. The Stag Lord goes after Oleg's. Hargulka gathers a troll army to kill the settlers. And so on. Make the world a living, breathing place that responds to the PCs' incursion into this wild land.

Very much this. Also, remember that while your PCs may be pretty powerful, their kingdom isn't. It's vulnerable. Nothing stops your bad guys from attacking the eastern side of the kingdom while the PCs are busy on the western side.


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Out of Character Time-Frame
Be aware of how long the campaign may take to run and consider if that is what you want. After two years, my group are just about to start adventure 5 - we play once a month for about 8 hours at a time and have had 24 gaming sessions.

In Character Time-Frame
Some Kingmaker games might span the course of a couple of years, a couple of decades or a couple of generations. it fully depends on how you want to run Kingmaker. I have added several extra adventures and large time gaps between adventures 2-3 and 3-4 so that nearly twenty years have passed since the PCs first started out in Adventure 1. The PCs all have teenage children who may participate in a couple of fights in Adventure 5 (getting into Pitax) and 6 (assisting against Blooms). Some games might have the players retiring characters and using offspring whilst others might have the original characters complete the whole path in just three of four years. It depends on how you want to run and how the players would like to play.

Preparation
I go over the top in preparation. It's a fault of mine, but I made sure to read and re-read all of the adventures before I ran the campaign and had extra notes (pages and pages) in place for the first three adventures before the first gaming session had taken place. It allowed me to consider what events to remove/addamend, I had a good idea of the Big Bad's involvement in virtually everything and was able to add little touches to events to hint at someone else's hand being in play. When the reveals come in the last two adventurers hopefully my players will quickly put it all together and see how things deflty knit together from the very beginning.

Extra Adventures
Because the players and their characters were happy to go long-term and relished the world around them and their kingdom I added the following adventures to the campaign:
Feast of Ravenmoor - I had the tiny village of Ravenmoor exist in the North-West corner of the PCs new domain, which they encountered in Adventure 1. They hated the place immediately. They were then sent a note in Adventure 2 that lured them back to it and then I used the adventure as it was laid out and by the end of it the PCs ended up with another tiny village that they had to support and govern. Tatzelford ended up growing too big to be used in the start of Adventure 4's attack, so Ravenmoor was an ideal substitute (and had been my back-up plan all along).
Realm of the Fellnight Queen - used the latter half of the adventure (the realm), taking place after Adventure 2, as the PCs had to stop the invasion of this fey queen. The whole event had been triggered by a Mite that escaped in Adventure 1 and then stumbled into this realm and wanted revenge on the PCs. This queen has strong links to Nyrissa which the PCs still don't know about...
The Harrowing, took place after Adventure 3. Had a member of the PCs council (The Old Beldame) pass away from age, leaving behind this artefact which sucked in the King's youngest child - the PCs then had to go in to this odd fairytale realm. I hope to use some of the NPCs in the adventures in conjunction with a new bloom I'll add in Adventure 6 which will be fairytale based (not yet considered the full details).

As you can see, you can add in more adventures or strip some elements out. As you progress, you can easily link things together, having them born out of consequences from the PCs actions or have elements return later on to haunt or aid the PCs.

Handouts
I recommend reviewing and printing out the mini quests in each adventure, physically giving the appropriate quest handout to the players when they encounter the quest giver. Review the quests after each adventure so that you can amend the NPC quest giver to one that the PCs have encountered (or one you want them to get to know) and tailor the rewards to more useful things for your PCs.

Kingdom Building
Another GM wrote up rules on bidding for Build Points after Adventure 1, in order to gather together the funds and equipment for the PCs to start to build their kingdom. This is an excellent way to get the PCs involved with various groups, decide who they want to support, spurn or become beholdened to and can set up a number of plot ideas and links for the future. I heartily recommend using this option unless your players aren't interested at all in the kingdom building aspect. I had various Brevoy factions, each Brevoy noble house, numerous temples and other miscellaneous factions all making offers to the PCs. The players spent a good while mulling over all the offers and they enjoyed decided on who they would have supporting their kingdom. In the end it helped them choose which elements of Brevoy they liked and disliked, which temples had a stronger presence in their kingdom and some of the laws that they put in place.

Tailor NPCs involvement
In Adventure 4 I completely removed Irovetti's involvement with the barbarians and Drelev. There was no way that my PCs would trust Irovetti or go near the Tournament in Adv. 5 if he had been involved with taking Drelev. Likewise you'll need to consider how your players will react to events and NPCs. I had Armag being supported by Clerics of Gyronna (whom the PCs hated after several earlier encounters) and a mercenary army to take Drelev and imprison the Count (the PCs had gotten on with Count Drelev and I wanted to keep him as an amiable NPC but one under the thumb of Brevoy, hence why he gave his land over to the PCs after realising his failures as a ruler). After rescuing the Count, the PCs recruited the mercenary army and made allies out of its leaders who now sit on their council! As you can see, resourceful PCs can easily amend how the campaign and NPCs play out. Go with it, where possible. The kingdom's council is comprised of all sorts of odd-balls such as a bogeyman, Kobold Chief, mercenary captain, a bard spy from another kingdom that the PCs 'converted', etc. Have fun introducing wildcards and fun elements and sometime roll with the weird choices that your players will make.

I'll leave my ramblings there for now =)

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