Mount Options from other classes question

[Malzel]

I saw in the FAQ that a Paladin's mount options expand if they have unlocked other mounts through other sources, such as Beast Rider or Monstrous Mount.

Does this apply to other classes with mounts or animal companions?

For instance, could you use Druid to get your Varisian Cowboy (Spellscar Drifter) a wicked Desert Scorpion Mount (Scorpion, Giant)? Or use Beast Rider to give your Tolguth Armored Escort (Mammoth Rider) a now huge sized Brachiosaur?

[Nefreet]

If you have an ability that expands your Animal Companion list for all of your classes, such as the Half-orc Feat "Beast Rider", then indeed you can select such a mount as a Paladin (or other similarly restricted class).

But a multiclassed Druid/Paladin, for example, could not select a fully advanced Dinosaur since Dinosaurs are not on the Paladin Mount list. Such a multiclassed character could select a fully advanced Horse, though, since Horse is on both lists.

[Damanta]

Keep in mind though that the Mammoth Rider overrides all previous class lists because it replaces your animal companion with one from it's own list.

[Tallow]

Damanta wrote:

Keep in mind though that the Mammoth Rider overrides all previous class lists because it replaces your animal companion with one from it's own list.

True, but you could not then take a level of an even different class that has an AC/Mount choice not on the Mammoth Rider list and add to it.

[Malzel]

Nefreet, that seems to contradict the faq as far as Paladins are concerned, at least. As it doesn't specify that they have to be a feat, but simply a legal source to have obtained the animal.

Also, I completely forgot that the FAQ covered Cavaliers as well, which also have the same statement attached to them.

Where did you see the ruling that classes which legally grant other animals can't be coupled with the Paladin? Because I feel like the FAQ specifically would permit that.

[Malzel]

I don't see that in the Mammoth Rider class at all? I read it as that it doesn't allow you to pick up a second animal, it specifically says "You can" not "You must" when it lists its optional mounts. The replacement line at the end I believe is specifically to disallow cheese like having a giant tanky beast running up and smacking the enemy while you dance circles around it from a distance on a hasted horse.

Edit: My question isn't whether these classes by their rules disallow extra mounts, because if one explicitly says you can't then you can't, otherwise I don't think there's any room for discussion on that by RAW. Which means, specifically, I want clarification on the vague area where no hard rule is written on cross class mount allowances when it comes to non-Paladin or non-Cavalier classes.

[Tallow]

FAQ wrote:

Your mount must be at least one size category larger than you. If you're a Medium PC, your mount must be Large. If you're a Small PC, your mount must be at least Medium. You may only select a mount from the listed mounts on page 63 of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook unless another source grants access to additional creature choices. As a cavalier, you may select a mount from those listed on page 33 of the Advanced Player's Guide. No additional mounts are available in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild except when granted from another legal source.

This is referring to the lines,

PRD, Paladin, Divine Bond wrote:

This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable.

or

PRD, Cavalier, Mount wrote:

The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.

and is essentially saying that the GM (previously Mike Brock, Mark Moreland, & John Compton; currently Tonya Woldridge, John Compton, and Linda Zayas-Palmer) has not approved anything additional beyond what's on those lists unless another source grants a new animal to that list. The Druid class has all animal types on its own list, but does not grant more animal types to the Cavalier or Paladin list. As such, you would have two animal companions.

This doesn't really need further clarification, because the wording is specific to the classes and the FAQ. They don't say they combine their animal lists, therefore they don't.

However, Mike Brock did clarify this in a post, but I do not recall where that post is at the moment. Nefreet likely has that on tap.

[Malzel]

"legal source" - Now see, I read source as being another class or other legal way to get the animal, not as a book. That would make it much more cut and dry.

Although sadly also quite boring.

I would like to see that clarification if anyone has the link, though. So I can tuck it away for reference.

EDIT: Probably sounds crazy, but is it possible to just e-mail them and ask them instead of hunting down whatever thread had the clarification in it?

[Damanta]

Tallow wrote:

Damanta wrote:

Keep in mind though that the Mammoth Rider overrides all previous class lists because it replaces your animal companion with one from it's own list.

True, but you could not then take a level of an even different class that has an AC/Mount choice not on the Mammoth Rider list and add to it.

Nope. It's either on the Mammoth Rider list or it's not huge, as it goes by the same rules as for example Paladin/Druid (only the paladin mounts count both classes for progression). (Granted, this is based on an FAQ solely for Cavaliers, but I think the campaign compilation thingy also extended that to paladins and other classes with restricted lists).

That said, I do believe feats that expand options would still function.

Legal sources are feats and boons for example.

[Tallow]

Malzel wrote:

"legal source" - Now see, I read source as being another class or other legal way to get the animal, not as a book. That would make it much more cut and dry.

Although sadly also quite boring.

I would like to see that clarification if anyone has the link, though. So I can tuck it away for reference.

EDIT: Probably sounds crazy, but is it possible to just e-mail them and ask them instead of hunting down whatever thread had the clarification in it?

Also see this post by Mike Brock.

No Tiger Riding Cavaliers

This thread also has a TON of useful information for class feature entities (CFE) (the term used collectively for animal companions, mounts, familiars, eidolons, spirits, shadows, etc.)

Druids Log: Animal Companions

[Tallow]

Damanta wrote:

That said, I do believe feats that expand options would still function.

Legal sources are feats and boons for example.

absolutely, as are archetypes and prestige classes. The Beast Rider cavalier archetype expands the cavalier list of mounts.

[Malzel]

Well.. now I'm confused. I definitely want to find what Mike said concerning what a legal source is.

Also, concerning "The Druid class has all animal types on its own list, but does not grant more animal types to the Cavalier or Paladin list. As such, you would have two animal companions."

I don't see that as being disallowed? The rules, if I recall, say you can only have one combat pet in action, but you're allowed to have as many noncombat pets as the DM feels is appropriate for not bogging down play. So you can couple mounts with companions and familiars and such.

Even if it didn't give them its animals to their allowable mount list, you'd STILL have an animal companion that probably isn't trained to be a mount and an animal companion mount. You could just switch them in and out depending on what kind of fights you might encounter in City X or Dungeon Y.

This is why some classes, like Mammoth Rider, specify that they replace your old mount IF you elect to take the one they offer. Because the pet cheese starts to sky rocket.

[Malzel]

Thank you Tallow.

I think it's much easier to get a direct answer from the writers as opposed to discussing "well it could mean this."

That helped a lot.

[Nefreet]

Malzel wrote:

concerning "The Druid class has all animal types on its own list, but does not grant more animal types to the Cavalier or Paladin list. As such, you would have two animal companions."

I don't see that as being disallowed?

I assumed when you stated that you had seen the FAQ disallowing the mixing of lists, I assumed you meant THIS one, but you probably meant a different one.

Does that clear things up?

[Tallow]

Nefreet wrote:

Malzel wrote:

concerning "The Druid class has all animal types on its own list, but does not grant more animal types to the Cavalier or Paladin list. As such, you would have two animal companions."

I don't see that as being disallowed?

I assumed when you stated that you had seen the FAQ disallowing the mixing of lists, I assumed you meant THIS one, but you probably meant a different one.

Does that clear things up?

See, I knew Nefreet had the goods. I just forgot that the FAQ I was looking for was a PFRPG FAQ rather than a PFS FAQ.

[Malzel]

"FAQ disallowing the mixing of lists"

I saw the FAQ on Paladins and Cavaliers getting more "from legal sources"

I didn't look up any other questions.

The one I looked at also had questions concerning setting up events and such, it was not the one you linked me to. I don't know if the same question was asked there but if it was, I missed it, or had forgotten as I had with the fact that the Paladin question also covered Cavaliers.

[Nefreet]

When you type a comment in the text window, click on the "How to format your text" button just below it.

That will help you quote and link to the discussions you've been reading, and maybe we can help sort out your confusion.

Whatever the case is, the information we're providing you is current. If you're quoting Mike Brock, he hasn't been in charge for a couple years, so there's a chance that whatever you found is outdated.