I was trying to figure out the RP cost for the hengeyoki. While almost all of their traits are covered under the race creator, two are not:
1)Hengeyokai Weakness: Hengeyokai are susceptible to cold iron. Cold iron weapons always do +1 damage against them. Moreover, a hengeyokai in an alternate form, when struck with cold iron, reverts instantly to her true shape.
I figured this would either be a -1 or -2 RP weakness, but I wasn't sure.
2)Shapechanger: A hengeyokai's true form is that of a humanoid with the face of an animal. The animal is that of its clan. A hengeyokai may change shape, appearing either as a human or in the natural form of her clan animal (alter self, beastshape I). A hengeyokai's human features are always the same, as are her animal features and these features are uniquely hers. That is, a hengeyokai cannot choose to take the shape or form of another person or animal in order to disguise herself without access to other abilities or powers. A hengeyokai can revert to her natural form at will. She may adopt her alternate forms a number of times per day equal to 1/2 her character level (minimum 1).
This is a problem. From the perspective of the Spell-like abilities, it has a Lesser one (alter self at 2nd level) and a Greater one (Beastshape I at 3rd level).
Now, the total cost just based on spell levels alone would be 5 RP (since the cost is equal to the level of the spell), but in the case of Spell-Like Ability, Lesser it can be used only three times a day while in the case of Spell-Like Ability, Greater it can only be used once a day.
Presumably from 1st to 3rd level a hengeyokai would only be able to adopt her alternate forms once a day. At 4th - 5th level it would be twice a day. At 6th - 7th level it would be three times a day, etc. until 20th level where they could do it ten times a day. I'm not sure whether or not this would cause the ability to be more than 5 RP or not.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Medium: Hengeyokai are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to size. [0 RP]
Low-light Vision: Hengeyokai can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. [1 RP]
Normal Speed: Hengeyokai (except for the Hare Clan) have a base speed of 30 feet. [0 RP]
Keen Senses: Hengeyokai receive a +2 racial bonus to Perception checks. [2 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Multitalented: Hengeyokai choose two favored classes at first level. Whenever they advance a level in either of these classes, they may choose either +1 skill point or +1 hit point. [2 RP]
Weapon Familiarity: Hengeyokai are proficient with the great club, long bow, and spear. (1 RP)
Languages: Hengeyokai begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Hengeyokai with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Celestial, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, and Goblin. [0 RP]
Badger (Mujina):
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Heal and Knowledge (religion) [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Cat (Neko):
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Climb and Stealth [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Dog (Inu):
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Sense Motive and Survival [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Hare (Usagi):
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, - 2 Constitution; [0RP]
base speed 40 feet [1 RP] {Fast}
Monkey (Saru):
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, - 2 Wisdom; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Climb [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Rat (Nezumi):
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Knowledge (nature) and Stealth [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
Raccoon-Dog (Tanuki):
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma; [0RP]
+2 racial bonus to Disable Device and Stealth [4 RP] {Skill Bonus}
*Except the Hare clan, which only has 1 RP.
It sounds like you're trying to convert a race from another game into Pathfinder? What game is that?
I wouldn't give hares 40 foot movement. That's an advanced tier trait and you're obviously trying to stick with a standard tier race.
It sounds like you're trying to convert a race from another game into Pathfinder? What game is that?
I wouldn't give hares 40 foot movement. That's an advanced tier trait and you're obviously trying to stick with a standard tier race.
Well it's from a Third Party but it's using Pathfinder as a base.
All the traits I listed here are from that publisher. Personally, I would have given the Hares more than just the 40 foot movement since that's only 1 RP and all the other clans have a 4 RP.
Anyway it is going to be an advanced race given the greater spell-like ability for shapeshifting. My issue is I'm not sure what this is going to cost.
The kitsune race can also alternate between three forms, identical to what you have done here. The human form is one of its standard racial features, and the fox form is an alternate trait. Maybe you could look at the kitsune and figure out what Paizo thought the the RP was worth. The race point system is flawed, but looking at another race a reference at least.
The kitsune race can also alternate between three forms, identical to what you have done here. The human form is one of its standard racial features, and the fox form is an alternate trait. Maybe you could look at the kitsune and figure out what Paizo thought the the RP was worth. The race point system is flawed, but looking at another race a reference at least.
Unfortunately, the kitsune aren't given a RP cost.
"A kitsune has two forms—a single human form and its true form, that of a humanoid fox. In their human forms, kitsune tend toward quickness and lithe beauty. In all forms they possess golden, amber, or brilliant blue eyes. In their true forms, they are covered with a downy coat of auburn fur, although more exotic coloration is possible."
They also never change into a full fox form:
Change Shape (Su): A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores and can remain in this form indefinitely.
This reads like it is an at-will, spell-like ability (meaning kitsunes would be "monstrous" in terms of RP cost). As a 2nd level spell, this would give a 4 RP cost.
Spell-Like Ability, At-Will (Variable, see Special)
Prerequisites: None.
Benefit: Choose a 3rd-level or lower spell that does not attack a creature or deal damage. Members of this race can use this spell as an at-will spell-like ability. The caster level of the spell is equal to the user's character level.
Special: This trait costs as many RP as twice the level of spell chosen (minimum 2). Up to five spells can be chosen when you take this trait. Each time you take an additional spell, adjust the RP cost of this trait appropriately.
Kitsune have the Fox Shape racial feat available them. They can also gain it through the use of an alternate racial trait. While the kitsune doesn't list the RP cost for their features, someone could do a bit of research to reverse-engineer the cost.
I would just abandon RP costs and use another race as a measuring stick.
Kitsune have the Fox Shape racial feat available them. They can also gain it through the use of an alternate racial trait. While the kitsune doesn't list the RP cost for their features, someone could do a bit of research to reverse-engineer the cost.
Aren't feats generally 4 RP?
Well, that's the sort of help I was looking for here. I'm estimating the cost is at minimum 5 RP because of the total cost of the spells involved. What I'm not sure of is if it would be more or not. On balance I'm not sure it's that useful since the alternate forms would only be able to be changed into once a day up to 3rd level and twice up to 5th. It's even weaker than the kitsune feat in terms of spell involved and number of times it can be done.
Like you said, the RP system is flawed and I find it frustrating when they introduce new races and don't bother to include RP costs for their abilities.
I would just abandon RP costs and use another race as a measuring stick.
I'm really not sure what other race I could use here. RP cost isn't as helpful as it could be, but it's the only way I have to at least try and balance a race. The problem is that, in a story, one could make the protagonist be whatever as long as there's a good story. For a RPG, the players not only need a compelling story but also a way to determine the more mundane mechanics.
One of the reasons the race builder's RP costs aren't a good metric is because you can't equate a race's power through numbers alone. If you're only focusing on the RP costs, you're doing it wrong. Even the race building guidelines points this out. It's not a substitute for race design skill.
Again, I agree with Ciaran Barnes in that you can just use the kitsune as a base and swap out some traits. That's a much better approach than trying to figure out all the RP costs of each ability.
Yes, the RP system has flaws. It is a tool that needs human guidance. You can use it to create a race but still need to step back and assess it from outside of point costs.