So to start off, not sure if this has been covered and my google-fu is just weak or there is a system for what I am talking about out there.
Basically I am looking to start a new campaign (low-magic/homebrewed) and have been toying with the idea of starting off the PCs as some type of village person. Such as a farmer, barmaid, guard ect... and after a major event happens in town they are thrown together and pick up gear that is more in line with what their (future) class will use. The problem I run into is that if I use the prebuilt NPC classes balance goes out the window.
It's important to me that they actually have the skills associated with their roles in the community so that's why start off as an NPC class. I feel as though there is a lot of flavor there and kind of works better with the idea of, oh hey I've been a locksmith for 7 years and it shows in my stats.
Now I admit this is more me just trying to cut corners and hope that someone has a better system. But I would greatly appreciate any feedback or input on this.
Thank you.
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Well, you've managed to post on a subject I've actually had some experience with.
I ran a very similar game (working with a converted 3.x module called "Legends are made, not born" -- where characters begin as ordinary townsfolk before becoming full fledged "heroes." The original adventure used 3.x's 0 level rules but Pathfinder doesn't have those and I decided to try something different.
What I did was have every PC take 1 level in an NPC class of their choice (BEAR WITH ME, I'll explain how I made this work in a minute), adding a homebrewed "apprentice" in addition (which is just a slightly re-jiggered adept to be an arcane caster), building as they saw fit. I gave commoners a little extra boon in the form of an extra weapon proficiency and then a choice of either a pet chosen from a very limited choice of options (not an animal companion or familiar) or a bonus Skill Focus feat, just to help commoners feel a little more balanced with the other NPC classes. I think I had a rule that adepts/apprentices had to become a PC spellcaster at first level, with the reason being below.
Then when the time came for the PCs to become "heroes" and take on their heroic PC classes, they didn't take the PC class as a second class level, but rather I merged their 1st level PC class into their NPC class--effectively making their 1st level a gestalt of the PC class and NPC class. In other words, they don't level up, they just gain the PC class abilities.
Basically, they kept whichever was the better of their hit dice and skills gained per level (but still had only 1 hit die and could only have max 1 rank in a skill), kept the class skills of both classes (so the expert class locksmith keeps Disable Device as a class skill even if his 1st PC level is fighter). Spells from the 1st level adept or apprentice known spell list transferred the PC spells known list even if it was not on the PC class spell list, and likewise they'd gain any spells they're supposed to get from the level 1 PC class as well (with some adjustments/rejiggering for prepared vs spont caster). The commoner could upgrade their pet to an animal companion or familiar, with the stats of the latter simply replacing the former.
I think also that when they started, they got half hit die +1 + con, and when they "became" a heroic class their HP maxed out to full hit die + Con (but again, they are still 1st level). I used traits in this game and they took one trait at creation and gained their second when they became "heroic." So even though they don't gain a level, there is a palpable power update.
From there on out they just leveled as normal in PC classes, gaining no further NPC classes (so it does not remain "gestalt" as that would be too powerful for the purposes of an exercise like this). In practice, even though 1st level PC heroes got some more class skills and the like than they normally would but it did not make them unusually overpowered. I really found the game balance not notably impacted at all. With slow-rate leveling the campaign remained fairly low powered.
Honestly, it worked better than I thought it would! The campaign was really fun.
Alternately, the much simpler solution for just giving people a more well rounded skill set is the background skills system in Pathfinder Unchained, but my sense is that you wanted to start with lower-than-PC-level characters and go from there.
Good luck!
YESS!! this is exactly what I was thinking of doing. I love the idea of starting off as a nobody and working from there. It always bugged me that apparently when you become of age you just are an adventurer. POOF. Profession works for some roleplaying purposes and earning GP but it felt flat and uninspired.
So my question to you then is: What NPC classes did you use and where did you get them?
or
Did you just let them basically build a "class" based on the profession?
I used the standard NPC classes in the Core Rules (commoner, warrior, expert, adept, aristocrat) with the following tweaks:
1. Commoner got free dagger proficiency (in addition to their normal choice of simple weapon) and the choice of
a) A free Skill Focus feat in an appropriate Craft or Profession
or
b) A pet (a dog, cat, pig, or sheep) trained with two tricks. The character would need to train Handle Animal to try to control the animal.
2. I made an "Apprentice" which works just like adept except they are an arcane caster casting with Intelligence and they cast using a spellbook.
Everyone got 70 gp starting gold. You could adjust according to campaign, and/or just give out starting gear appropriate to
I didn't feel a need to outsource or custom build, as I feel the NPC classes work pretty well, and the expert class in particular pretty much already IS a "build your own professional" class, because it lets you customize your class skills.
You do need to trust your players and work with them to be sure they build the NPCs toward their background. Mine were really good about this.
I made my PCs start with NPC classes and had no issue with it. Let them retrain their npc level into a pc class level a few sessions down the road. I just asked that for floating perks, like the rxpert choosing which class skills he gets, they stick to class skills and proficiencies their target class would get. I also house ruled the adept as being arcane or divine and using whatever casting stat their target class would use.
The party was a group of experts and warriors and all seemed fine to me. Gave them some buddy NPC commoners and experts to play as well for the inevitable KOs and skill check failures to nor remove a player from the game completely while still pitting against hordes of lvl1-3 foes.
I'd see no reason not to do it again. They mutineered a ship, crit a dying lvl3 fighter captain with a ballista, blew up an enemy ship by filling the deck with smoke and onr dude swinging in and sneaking into the hold, managed to unchain dozens of slaves before the enemy ship sank, and much more... and that was just the first sessions before they even got the NPC classes and instead had a slave class (which is worse in every way than any other class, d4 hp low saves half bab no skills no proficiencies etc.).
High level PCs can be amazing in about any situation but as a GM you can still make even the weakest of PCs amazing by giving them the appropriate opportunities.
A pet (a dog, cat, pig, or sheep) trained with two tricks. The character would need to train Handle Animal to try to control the animal.
Its not always enforced, but literally every animal is supposed to be controlled using Handle Animal - even an animal companion whose Intelligence rivals a certain party member's - if you go by the rules. Its just that past low level most of the DCs are low enough that you can't fail them anymore.
I like some of DeathQuaker's suggestions. I suppose if did this, I would ask each player to let me know what their intended PC class/character type/party role is. They don't have to be specific and they can change their mind. Once you know that, homebrew an NPC class that is tailored towards that, and will hopefully have some overlap when they finally gain a real PC class. If they want to play a cleric or wizard, give them a good will save, a 0-level spell, and a couple of knowledge skills. If ranger, they get +1 BAB, good fort, and survival. A rogue could just play an expert with a good Ref. Have fun with it, and make changes if you need to.
This is all really helpful guys, I really appreciate it. I have plenty of time until we start the "core game". Most of my players haven't played in along time so they wanted to do the beginner's box just to try and jump back in. After that though I am taking the proverbial training wheels off and throwing them to the dire wolves.
I might post the results of the first session to let you guys know if it goes well.