Hey Guys!
I have spent many hours working on a homebrew crafting system overhaul. I have been unsatisfied with how crafting works for a long time, and I'm looking for feedback and ideas on my first attempt. I would like this to be set up as a standalone module that can be added into any pathfinder or 3.5 game. 3.5 players would need to increase required ranks by 3 for the listed skills, but otherwise the system will work fine for either system. Please give it a read and let me know what you think, especially if you have questions after reading it, or there are areas that don't make sense.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12bRiKvEhYZIX2cfrqbVb_-YaNAQlY0-M9m3nR6c 1tpA/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks for reading!
Fellwynd
Fellwynd wrote: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12bRiKvEhYZIX2cfrqbVb_-YaNAQlY0-M9 m3nR6c1tpA/edit?usp=sharing That link does not work.
Sorry about that, for some reason the forum is putting a space in the link, between the c and the 1 near the end, I'll try and figure this out.
Thanks
The messageboard adds a space when a too long string is pasted, which happens to break http addresses pasted directly into the text (you can see it in the string between 6c and 1tp). To make a proper link one has to use proper BB code.
>Fellwynd's homebrew crafting system<
I'd suggest changing the sharing setting to allow commenting directly on the file.
First visible error: crafting does not cost XP in Pathfinder so you can't say that essence replaces xp costs.
Quote: Items that require activation to duplicate a spell effect cannot be crafted by characters. No scrolls, potions, wands, or staves?!
Quote: Continuous items must be based on a spell with a duration of 1 minute per level or longer, and they must not have a target or personal. This means you can only make continuous items of area spells and very little of continuous buff items. Bull's strength? Targeted spell. Barkskin? Targeted spell. Mage armor? Targeted spell. Thus belts of strength, amulets of natural armor, and bracers of armor are out of the crafting list.
Combining two essences to make a higher tier essence of the same type is too easy. Just slaughter 16 weak monsters to get a radiant one.
It feels like you're taking a simple idea (replace rules using Magic Item Creation feats with rules using ingredients) and making it way more complicated than it needs to be.
The rules also aren't very well written and either have missing information (like how long it takes to craft a magic weapon) or extra unnecessary bits that make crafting more annoying (like requiring reagents and inks for alchemy).
For any set of crafting rules, players and GMs simply want to know:
1) How long does it take to craft
2) How much does crafting cost (or what items/ingredients are needed)
3) What skill checks are necessary
These rules obfuscate all that information in a way that forces players to skim through several pages to figure it out.
Thanks for your feedback Drejk.
1) The system was designed first for 3.5, where there is an XP cost for all crafting, so that can be ignored for Pathfinder.
2) This was meant for mental activation, not spell completion. All spell completion items can be made with spellcraft, but this is unclear, so i will reword it. Same for potions, they are crafted with alchemy and follow the normal rules restricting spell levels and targets.
3) This is a typo, should read "they must not have a target of personal." I felt that many of the personal spells were too powerful to allow a character to have continuous buff items for. I have corrected the doc.
4) This is up to GM discretion, if you have access to hordes of weak magical enemies at high level, then you will be able to farm essences, true. But even without this system if your GM allows that kind of play you will be able to acquire near limitless wealth. Most 20th level characters can slay a near infinite amount of CR 4 or 5 monsters given time and access. I have used this in games i have run, and with proper pacing that characters have more materials than time, and they must prioritize their crafting.
Thanks so much for your feedback, I will make updates when i have time.
Cheers!
2. What is "mental activation"? (there is no such category in the rules, there might be some items that are activated by mere thought but its their specific rule not a general one)
3. Ah, that explains it. Restricting continuous personal effects is reasonable step.
Cyrad wrote: It feels like you're taking a simple idea (replace rules using Magic Item Creation feats with rules using ingredients) and making it way more complicated than it needs to be.
The rules also aren't very well written and either have missing information (like how long it takes to craft a magic weapon) or extra unnecessary bits that make crafting more annoying (like requiring reagents and inks for alchemy).
For any set of crafting rules, players and GMs simply want to know:
1) How long does it take to craft
2) How much does crafting cost (or what items/ingredients are needed)
3) What skill checks are necessary
These rules obfuscate all that information in a way that forces players to skim through several pages to figure it out.
Thanks for your feedback Cyrad. Not sure what you mean about missing information, it says "A character completes 1000gp per caster level per day when enchanting a weapon," and "Crafting a mundane weapon or 50 pieces of ammunition takes 1 day" in the skill description. Could you be more specific?
I was trying to move away from the idea of generic "material components" with the Alchemy rules, and create a more interactive means of brewing potions. The alchemical reagents and essences also allow some GM control over what players can make.
It seems like I should add a section about costs and crafting times at the end just to sum up all of the different skills, instead of having that information only available in the individual skill descriptions.
Thanks again!
Cheers
Drejk wrote: 2. What is "mental activation"? (there is no such category in the rules, there might be some items that are activated by mere thought but its their specific rule not a general one)
3. Ah, that explains it. Restricting continuous personal effects is reasonable step.
Hey,
What I mean by mental activation is for example Boots of Levitation. Maybe command word is a better way to put it? Items that require no spellcasting ability, and nothing other than a standard action to activate. I am trying to avoid things like a fighter with a belt of fireball at will. I want the items characters can make to enhance their classes and roles, not make it that every character can do everything.
Thanks again!
There's so such thing as "mental activation" and Boots of Levitation are a activated using a command word. Magic items are either spell completion, spell trigger, command word, or use-activated. I recommend studying these rules.
You can't be "loosey goosey" with the language for how someone uses a magic item. There's very specific rules and terminology for how magic items work. If you don't follow these terms and rules, then readers won't know what you're talking about, even if it seems obvious to you.
Even the core books have a lot of useless magic items because the designers forgot or did not understand some of these rules. The old Jaunt Boots are a good example.
Cyrad wrote: There's so such thing as "mental activation" and Boots of Levitation are a activated using a command word. Magic items are either spell completion, spell trigger, command word, or use-activated. I recommend studying these rules.
You can't be "loosey goosey" with the language for how someone uses a magic item. There's very specific rules and terminology for how magic items work. If you don't follow these terms and rules, then readers won't know what you're talking about, even if it seems obvious to you.
Even the core books have a lot of useless magic items because the designers forgot or did not understand some of these rules. The old Jaunt Boots are a good example.
Hey,
You're right, I updated it to say Command Word. Spell completion, trigger, and use activated are all mostly unchanged in my system.
Cheers
Cyrad wrote: There's so such thing as "mental activation" and Boots of Levitation are a activated using a command word. Magic items are either spell completion, spell trigger, command word, or use-activated. I recommend studying these rules.
You can't be "loosey goosey" with the language for how someone uses a magic item. There's very specific rules and terminology for how magic items work. If you don't follow these terms and rules, then readers won't know what you're talking about, even if it seems obvious to you.
Even the core books have a lot of useless magic items because the designers forgot or did not understand some of these rules. The old Jaunt Boots are a good example.
Use Activated wrote: Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case. Boots of Levitation wrote: These soft leather boots are incredibly light and comfortable, with thin soles reinforced by strips of tough hide that provide an unexpected amount of support and protection to the foot. On command, these boots allow the wearer to levitate as if she had cast levitate on herself. Boots of Levitation do not say they need a Cammand Word to activate. As an item that you wear, you Mentally Will it to activate.
Dr Styx,
I see your point, however they would still fall under the category of Command Word activation in my opinion, since the item description says "On Command." I am looking at Wonderous Items on the SRD, and Cyrad is right, there is only Command Word or Use Activated.
In my system you would be able to craft boots of continuous Levitate, since the spell is not personal only and has a duration of 1 min/lvl, but they would never require activation, you would just be able to use a move action to levitate as the spell. Perhaps that was the designers intent with that item, but like many wonderous items, it is unclear.
Regardless, that was just an example, but it is clear I need to reword the section on what can and cannot be crafted in this system to avoid confusion like this.
Thanks for your input guys
Cheers!
Dr Styx, if an item says "on command," it refers to a command word. This standard language.
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