Hello, all.
I've seen a lot of discussion on adaptations of multi-classing in order to capture the old first and second edition feel, but none of it quite suited me. I'd like some feedback on what I've come up with.
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Variant multiclass rules:
You move to the slow xp progression, or to medium if your group was using the fast progression. This will mean that you no longer have the experience necessary to maintain your level, but that’s fine. You will have an experience “Debt” to pay off. This can be avoided by saving up your xp instead of leveling.
You must now earn enough experience to equal your level on the new experience track, as well as an amount equal to gain level 2 in order to gain level one in your new class. On the slow track, this is 3000 xp. At that point you will be level one in your new class with a class xp total of 0. This represents the training time to pick up a new skill set, and helps to offset the usually front loaded benefits of a new class. From this point forward, you will take a penalty on future experience gains equal to the number of additional classes. For example, if you have 2 classes you take a 10% penalty, 20% for 3 and 30% for four, etc.
Each class progresses along the new experience track independent of the other class’s experience total, and all benefits stack as per the core multiclass rules, except that only your highest class level qualifies for odd level feats and stat increases. You may allocate your experience freely to any of your classes, but your favored class bonus still applies only to your favored class.
The same amount of experience can be leveraged by taking multiple classes in order to gain a higher overall level, but there is a minor loss (3000xp) for each additional class, as well as the lack of higher class level abilities, ability score increases, and bonus feats, so this isn’t as optimal. Also, there is a diminishing return on total class levels with 8 or more classes. Prestige classes count as any other class for this purpose, and prerequisites must still be met.
The chart below assumes medium track for the party, and moving to the slow chart for multiclassing. It also applies the penalty from level one on the assumption that the character always had the given number of classes. This means that multiclassing later in your career will have reduced penalties as reflected on the chart, but have a higher up-front xp debt. The experience necessary to achieve level 20 on the medium track is modified for the X% xp penalty and the 3000 xp per class cost. See the chart for examples.
|Classes||XP Penalty||XP split evenly||Class Level||Total levels|
2_________10%________1,614,000_____16_________32
3_________20%_________951,000______14_________42
4_________30%_________618,000______13_________52
5_________40%_________417,000______12_________60
6_________50%_________282,000______11_________66
7_________60%_________184,714______10_________70
8_________70%_________111,000_______8_________64
9_________80%__________53,000_______7_________63
10________90%___________6,000_______2_________20
11_______100%________no xp gain_____________________
Example:
A new character starts as a level 1 fighter. He saves his xp, trying to learn cleric skills, so when his party hits level 2, he has 2000xp and takes a level of cleric. He is now a Fighter 1 / Cleric 1 with 0 / 0 xp. He moves to the slow track for both classes and must gain 3000xp in each to advance them. His party now has 2000xp and are level 2.
The party gains another 3300xp, putting them at 5300 total and 3rd level each. Our multiclass Fighter 1 / Cleric 1 advances to Fighter 2 / Cleric 1 with experience of 3000xp / 0 xp.
It seems that he’s caught up, but the rest of the party has gained the 3rd level feat and class abilities, while he hasn’t. This difference will continue to grow as he takes his penalty and splits his experience on the slow track. He has more diverse skills but is still limited by his highest class level and limited action economy.
If he wants to take a 3rd class, let's say rogue, it will cost him 3000xp to gain it at level one and 0xp, and from that point onward he will take a 20% penalty on xp gains. He is now a Fighter 2 / Cleric 1 / Rogue 1 with XP of 3000/0/0. His party has 8600xp each and are nearing 4th level and a stat increase, while he has 4 class levels but a character level of 2 and must take a 20% penalty on future xp gains on the slow track.
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What do you think?
The character would still get feats at 3 levels and stat increases at 4 levels no matter what classes those levels are in
also I would say that moving them to the slow track just penalizes the player, I would say only a slight penalty per class rather than the whole exp track shift, but that's just my opinion
Thanks for the feedback, Dox.
The character would still get feats at 3 levels and stat increases at 4 levels no matter what classes those levels are in
That's the official rule, and it would be too exploitable with this system. This differs by only counting the highest class level for feats and ability score increases, as well as "character level".
The player gets a huge advantage in the HD, +2 save bonuses for the good saves, and first level class abilities, and lower levels are significantly cheaper than higher levels.The intent is to allow gaining a new skill set without making the existing skill set harder to advance. For example: A 5th level wizard advancing to 6th level needs 8000 more xp. If he spends that on level 1 fighter, making him Wiz 5 / Fig 1, he will need 12,000 xp to advance to 6th level wizard. It's illogical that learning something different should make learning more of the same harder than it would otherwise be.
moving them to the slow track just penalizes the player, I would say only a slight penalty per class rather than the whole exp track shift, but that's just my opinion
The 10% per extra class and moving to the slow track help to balance the attack bonus, saves, HD, etc. At the optimal 7 classes, the character could have up to 70 class levels and therefore 70HD. The tables above were calculated on the slow track, but the flat xp used is from level 20 of the medium track.
If the character with 7 classes optimized 1 class and just splashed a single level of 6 others, he would be 15/1/1/1/1/1/1 for a total of 21 class levels, which puts him about on par with a level 20 character.
If he balanced his classes instead it's 10/10/10/10/10/10/10, giving him the feats and ability increases of a 10th level, but 70 HD. A different set of advantages for the same xp investment. He'll have a vast array of abilities, but no access to higher level skills.
I'm trying to maintain "balance" while removing the poor logic of official multi-classing. Allowing each class to advance independently seems to make more sense, and the penalty could be seen as the strain of trying to do too much,but that doesn't make each skill set individually harder.
I see, yeah I think this system would work fine now that I understand it. I personally wouldn't use it but I like it
...giving him the feats and ability increases of a 10th level, but 70 HD...
If you're going for balance, this is moving the wrong direction. Have you looked at the Variant Multi-classing rules from pathfinder unchained? They're far from perfect but they're quite a bit more balanced than this idea. If you don't like the idea of the secondary class costing feats (and aren't afraid of having to carefully track xp totals) you could try putting players on the fast track and let them take 1 secondary class without paying feats by moving to the medium track, or 2 secondary classes by moving to the slow track?
...giving him the feats and ability increases of a 10th level, but 70 HD...If you're going for balance, this is moving the wrong direction.
I have looked at unchained. It's kind of a gimpy version of multi-classing compared to the older editions, so not what I'm going for. I'm looking for full functionality in each of the classes,but slower advancement as a result.
If power gaming just for HD is the objective, then yeah, my system is too exploitable. Splashing works out okay, but evening out the classes yields a lot of HD at a reduced XP cost.
What if I modified this so you could use the highest of your hit dice, but maximum number of HD cannot exceed highest class level? Since the other levels end up being neglected on HP, maybe a +1 bonus for each HD. Thus, the 7 classes at 10 levels each would amount to 10HD+60. Still about on par with a level 20, maybe a little bit behind.