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Just wondering, are there any official rules regarding PFS use of characters which require lots of time to prepare spells/abilities?
For example, multi-class characters like cleric+wizard would require 2 hours of prep time in-game. Add a defic obedience and that's 3 hours each day to avoid loss of class abilities.
Granted, if the adventure only lasts a day, this doesn't really matter. But for sessions that take place over multiple days, how is this handled?
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Like they've mentioned, spell prep doesn't need to be done daily, so deific obedience is the only one that really is daily. And even that is only up to 1 hour a day, and many can be performed much quicker.
Like Nefreet, I've never seen this become an issue in PFS play. Probably because I've only ever seen one multiclass caster/caster, and they were oracle/sorcerer, not cleric/wizard, so prep time would still be quite short.
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Like they've mentioned, spell prep doesn't need to be done daily, so deific obedience is the only one that really is daily. And even that is only up to 1 hour a day, and many can be performed much quicker.
Spell preparation doesn't have to be done daily?
CRB 218, says 8 hours of "restful calm" are required before preparing wizard spells, which each interruption adding 1 hour to the total required time. The actual preparation of spells takes 1 hour for all the spells, or 15 minutes for some of them.
I suppose if you were unable to prepare spells, the previously prepared spells would remain, but only until cast. They disappear from your mind once cast, as per the CRB in that same section.
The Divine casters are very similar, though their spells require a specific time of day (Pre-chosen by the PC, consistent across days) with which they spend an hour preparing spells by praying to their deity. Although it does allow divine casters to move the time if events make it impossible, it does clearly require that hour spent praying as soon as possible. As written, ASAP doesn't seem like a loose term, seems more like a compulsion for the divine caster to do immediately when actually possible, rather than waiting for a "good spot" to pray. Combat and certain emergencies are exempt, but does seem like it's not an optional thing to avoid doing.
Perhaps the newer casters, but as written, definitely seems like the base caster classes are unable to avoid spending time with their preparation.
Anyway, point isn't to suggest GMs get harsher on it. I'm just wondering if PFS has any rules regarding characters that require lots of prep time. Seems like multi-class characters could potentially have lots of preparation prior to each adventure, which may be unrealistic for a Pathfinder (or adventurer). But, if PFS officially ignores the prep time, then it doesn't matter if I build a character that, outside of PFS, would require most of the day preparing to do stuff.
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PFS has no special rules regarding prep time.
Note that overland travel time assumes 8 hours of rest, 8 hours of camping and 8 hours of travel.
If you're playing a multi-day scenario, that's time sensitive and your party is pushing the time you could get into trouble.
These are pretty few and far between though.
So you don't get the skip the prep time, it's just unlikely to be an issue.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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As a number of scenarios say that you're leaving "As soon as possible" these characters should have a default spell list for when there isn't time to customise for the mission.
That's a good idea in general actually, just to have the table ready to play faster. Filling up a 20-slot spell selection can be time consuming if you start from scratch every time.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Lets see.
8 hours rest.
8 hours travel.
2 hours for food...
That leaves 6 hours for Prep. I suppose it is theoretically possible to build a character that can prep for more than 6 hours, but it seems pretty implausible.
One thing I am not sure of, does it actually take more time to prep for multiple classes? I can see it for wizard / cleric. But does it really take longer for a wizard 3 / magus 3 to study 5 first level spells, and 1 second level spell from his spell book than it takes a wizard 6 to study 3 first, 3 second, and 2 third level spells?
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As a number of scenarios say that you're leaving "As soon as possible" these characters should have a default spell list for when there isn't time to customise for the mission.That's a good idea in general actually, just to have the table ready to play faster. Filling up a 20-slot spell selection can be time consuming if you start from scratch every time.
A number of our spellcasters have a Demon spell list, an undead spell list, a humanoid spell list, and a all-purpose spell list. They then pick a list right after the breifing. Most sites say you leave immediately for the week-long ship ride so they have plenty of time to prep.
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As a number of scenarios say that you're leaving "As soon as possible" these characters should have a default spell list for when there isn't time to customise for the mission.That's a good idea in general actually, just to have the table ready to play faster. Filling up a 20-slot spell selection can be time consuming if you start from scratch every time.
I'm more talking about in-game time regarding lengthy preparations. Even if the player has a default list of spells prepared for a given encounter, the character still has to dedicate the normal time in-game to spell preparation.
And it's not just spells, there are a few classes that require that "hour" each day to prepare or otherwise ready themselves for being an adventurer.
On a side note, if I'm a cleric+druid, do I dedicated 2 hours to divine spell preparation since I have two divine classes, or is all divine spell preparation considered to be done in that one hour?
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Like they've mentioned, spell prep doesn't need to be done daily, so deific obedience is the only one that really is daily. And even that is only up to 1 hour a day, and many can be performed much quicker.Spell preparation doesn't have to be done daily?
Spell preparation only has to be done when you want to prepare new spells. If you already have all your desired spells prepared, then you do not need to spend time everyday preparing spells. They don't disappear overnight, they stay until spent. So like BNW mentioned, since there's no rules for what's happening between scenarios, you can just have your standard suite of spells already prepared. Or, if you've only spent a couple level 1 spells, and don't feel like spending time refilling those slots, you can just choose not to fill them. Wizards have a little more leeway than clerics because they can always choose to take a cat nap for the additional time needed clear their mind plus the up to 1 hour to prepare spells later, where a cleric has to pray at a certain time, or as soon as possible if there are distractions, if they wish to prepare spells (including leaving slots open to be prepared later).
Also worth noting is that the 1 hour time frame is the maximum limit if a wizard or cleric wants to prepare every single spell slot they have. The minimum time is 15 minutes. And preparing anything between 1 spell and all of their spells should take an appropriate amount of time between 15 minutes and an hour. What's appropriate is left up to the GM, but a caster preparing only a 1/10 of their spell slots likely shouldn't take the entire hours to prepare.
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I realize that they don't have spells... but Alchemists actually have to prep their Extracts every day - even if they didn't use them.
When an alchemist mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below). An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day. Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work—most alchemists prepare many extracts at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for an alchemist to keep some (or even all) of his daily extract slots open so that he can prepare extracts in the field as needed.
But as it only takes them a minute of work to prep an extract (and this can be done at any time during the day) this is really a bit of a non issue...
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Spell preparation only has to be done when you want to prepare new spells. If you already have all your desired spells prepared, then you do not need to spend time everyday preparing spells. They don't disappear overnight, they stay until spent.Like they've mentioned, spell prep doesn't need to be done daily, so deific obedience is the only one that really is daily. And even that is only up to 1 hour a day, and many can be performed much quicker.Spell preparation doesn't have to be done daily?
Yes, they stay until spent, but once spent (as in cast), they go away until you prepare spells again. But if the wizard even uses a single spell, they can't cast that one until they prepare it again.
So, say the wizard has 16 spells initially prepared. They cast 4 of them, meaning they only have 12 spells prepared now. So even with rest, unless they prepare the spells, they only have 12 spells they can cast.
Also worth noting is that the 1 hour time frame is the maximum limit if a wizard or cleric wants to prepare every single spell slot they have. The minimum time is 15 minutes. And preparing anything between 1 spell and all of their spells should take an appropriate amount of time between 15 minutes and an hour. What's appropriate is left up to the GM, but a caster preparing only a 1/10 of their spell slots likely shouldn't take the entire hours to prepare.
That 15 minutes thing is for wizards only and is done after resting.
Clerics require the full hour each day at a specific, reoccurring time.
Anyway, at the hour or 15minute level, the prep time doesn't really matter. It's when you start multi-classing with multiple caster classes, certain prestige classes, and/or taking feats, like defic obedience, which each require additional time each day.
So, back to the question, if I build a character that has like 9 hours of preparation time, are there going to be PFS complications as normal for the Pathfinder RPG, or does PFS ignore the preparation time and just assume it is done each day?
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So, back to the question, if I build a character that has like 9 hours ofa character that has 9 hours of spell preparation time has a lot of issues... that would be 9 different casting classes or am I missing something?
Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Magus/...ah...Slayer? what else?
I said "like 9 hours" as it was more an example. I haven't done the math.
Off hand, you've got the divine casting classes, which each need an hour. The deific obedience feat also requires an hour, especially if you've got a prestige class that requires it daily. That Pain Taster prestige has a daily hour too, though that one isn't a spell casting class.
I think getting 2-3 hours of preparation time by 6th level wouldn't be too much of a stretch with reasonable character builds. Especially if you start adding up time for donning armor and other daily preparation related tasks. If you were trying for a specific number of hours, I'm sure you could reach a higher number.
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A number of our spellcasters have a Demon spell list, an undead spell list, a humanoid spell list, and a all-purpose spell list. They then pick a list right after the breifing. Most sites say you leave immediately for the week-long ship ride so they have plenty of time to prep.As a number of scenarios say that you're leaving "As soon as possible" these characters should have a default spell list for when there isn't time to customise for the mission.That's a good idea in general actually, just to have the table ready to play faster. Filling up a 20-slot spell selection can be time consuming if you start from scratch every time.
I've been wondering how others break down the spell list for different scenarios. Social, dungeon, overland travel are what I had set up, but then I realized they are almost all the same and now I leave a slot open at the lower levels.
FWIW I assume my caster is 'on call' for [X]. Drendle Drang and the other VCs have a list of who is on call and that list includes specialties. If Drang calls my caster for a demon mission, its because my caster was told to be on call for a 'demon' mission. (Next week I am on call for the undead) mission. After the briefing I know what I prepared, but I assume he called me because prepping was done before the briefing. Having the various lists help to not waste game time.
To the OP: No it is not generally an issue. It is assumed you have enough time to prep spells, just like it is assumed you have spell components, that the party has enough carrying capacity for everything you will find, you have a stash of gear at home, your transportation is paid for, etc. etc. etc. There are a few scenarios that are called out differently (mentioned above) but they are rare and mentioned ahead of time.
For it to be done differently would put a stigma on playing certain characters/classes and that is NOT what PFS is about.
So, back to the question, if I build a character that has like 9 hours of preparation time, are there going to be PFS complications as normal for the Pathfinder RPG, or does PFS ignore the preparation time and just assume it is done each day?.
When you actually build such a character, especially one that requires 9 hours of prep at first level, I'll be happy to get back to you.
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An Alchemist's/Investigator's prep time is short enough, they can just round out their list of extracts by prepping them during the mission briefing. It's not like anyone else is paying attention, either!
Kidding! Though the 1 minute per extract prep time is a big advantage in terms of utility and leaving an extract open to prepare as needed. I can usually even find time to use Inspired Alchemy (10 minutes per extract recovered) to hand out False Life Infusions before entering a dangerous situation, since the duration is plenty long enough.
Now, prepping your Mutagen for the day is another story, as that does take an hour. But, unlike Extracts, it doesn't say it goes bad after a day, so if you always prep the same one, then you can probably have one ready from before the scenario starts. And you aren't limited to 1/day, just 1 at a time, so you can prep one at night if you've used yours earlier in the day.
@RealAlchemy - Thanks for reminding me that I need to scribe monkeyfish for my Investigator. That's one well worth having prepped ahead of time, because when you need it, you usually need it right away.
I'll switch up my Investigator's list depending on party composition. If I'm going to be one of the primary melee characters, then it's a bunch of 10 min/level or hour/level buffs: barkskin, see invisibility, heroism (via alchemical allocation), false life, resinous skin, investigative mind, and amplify elixir if it looks like it might be a longer period of time than the 50 minutes heroism lasts (the shortest of those buffs). Then things like shield, expeditious retreat, or round/level buffs like channel vigor or displacement, to go with monstrous physique from my Monstrification Staff, to use at the start of combat or when expecting combat within a few minutes.
If I'm handing out buffs to other martials, I'll double or triple up on things like shield or barkskin, and like I said, if there's time, I'll cycle through handing out and recovering false life. I might keep a true strike extract in on of my Poisoner's Gloves, and usually displacement in the other to hand out in the middle of combat.
Either way, I'll leave at least one first level extract open, and usually a second. I don't have enough third level ones available to do that (though the staff helps immensely!).
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Those who think that 9 hours of prep time for a first level character is out of line have never had teenagers in their bathrooms.*
More seriously, we don't usually pay much attention to prep time for the same reason that travel between scenarios in hand-waived. It doesn't add to fun, and gameplay is more efficient without it. So perhaps if you're wondering how to RP all this, realize there is such a thing as too much detail.
TOO LONG
"After an exhausting morning
a) studying his spellbook,
b) doing his prayers
c) banging on his chest, screaming the names of all of his kills at the top of his lungs for the glory of Gorum
d) going down to his laboratory, preparing his mad science extracts, and
e) doing his morning aerobics, calisthenics and mustache-grooming routines
he arrives in the briefing room covered in sweat but in a state of sartorial splendor and enlightened awareness, ready for whatever the wonders the mission briefing has in store!"
SHORTER and BETTER
"After an exhaustive morning of meditation, study, and other preparations, he arrives in the briefing room not only with spells and elixirs prepped, but also an exquisitely waxed mustache!"
Hmm
___
*Give or take 7 hours for hyperbole.
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PFS does not ignore prep time. It is just rarely relevant, tables usually only have 4-5hr to run so focus tends to stay on the story and the GMs trust players to properly manage their class abilities within the intent and word of the rules.
I have had it come up where my character was counting hours to determine if he memorized had rememorized spells before the morning ambush or not. But it is rare.
I've had it come up where my character could not complete his obedience, so he operated without that feat during that mission.
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It doesn't come up.
It does come up, but rarely.
There's three cases I can think of (all of which I have experienced) where it matters.
1) A GO NOW! scenario where there is serious time pressure. Not an issue if you have a "default" spell list that may not be ideal. Only an issue if you have a player who wants to always leave all slots unprepared and pick the best spells based on the briefing. I ask all the players if they have all their daily preparations - spells and the like - done before I start the briefing. If anyone says they want to wait until after the briefing I caution them that time might be an issue. "This is not a *wink, wink* situation, just a warning that some scenarios have a time component."
2. A multiclassed character who drops tons of buffs every day during a travel scenario. Again - "This is not a *wink, wink* situation, just a warning that some scenarios have a time component."
3. Scenarios that have encounters over consecutive days (with a time component). This is the most common time it comes up. Usually the scenario authors and developers have been good about ensuring that the encounters are such that even a spellcaster who doesn't recover any spells will still be OK. However, it's up to the other players to convince the caster not to insist on taking the full prep time when the GM says "This is a warning that some scenarios have a time component."
So basically I feel it's up to the GM to give a general warning and then let the other players convince (or not) the long prepper to skip some things.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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An Alchemist's/Investigator's prep time is short enough, they can just round out their list of extracts by prepping them during the mission briefing. It's not like anyone else is paying attention, either!
Speak for yourself. My Alchemist's preptime if Im not using any of her second level spells to cheat it is months??? If I cheat its an hour plus extract prep time. Its also the closest I think I got to having 9 hour prep time at level one though surprisingly it never came as they were all one day scenarios at low levels.
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Are you counting crafting in that?
An 11th level Alchemist has 15 base extract slots, plus maybe 10-12 from bonus slots. That's under half an hour. I addressed the Mutagen. That takes an hour, but it doesn't expire, so it's much easier to fit in creating a new one than a Cleric having to spend an hour at a specific time of day.
Still not seeing a character that requires anything even close to nine hours of prep time.
I remember the old spell memorisation rules of First Edition. An 18th level ArchMage would spend a day and a half memorizing spells if the rules were followed, assuming he was preparing all his slots from empty.
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1) A GO NOW! scenario where there is serious time pressure.
most prepared players are going to read the blurb or have a default spell list that's good enough. Open slots take 15 minutes to fill,
2. A multiclassed character who drops tons of buffs every day during a travel scenario. Again - "This is not a *wink, wink* situation, just a warning that some scenarios have a time component."
I don't see how that adds to prep time. you can't prep without 8 hours of rest or you can prep once a day and you're not getting that while traveling.
3. Scenarios that have encounters over consecutive days (with a time component).
It's not a problem here either. You have 24 hours in a day, 8 is spent traveling, 8 resting. An extra hour isn't going to make a difference by any mechanic i've seen, and even IF it would, it's going to take you half an hour to set up and clear out camp at minimum, so you make the fighter do the extra half hour set up while you go to sleep, wake up and then read your spellbook on the latrine you had them set up last night while they clear the camp.
If the fighter doesn't like that arrangement, remind them where their fly spells come from.
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An extra hour isn't going to make a difference by any mechanic i've seen, and even IF it would, it's going to take you half an hour to set up and clear out camp at minimum, so you make the fighter do the extra half hour set up while you go to sleep, wake up and then read your spellbook on the latrine you had them set up last night while they clear the camp.
"Oh boy. Leomunder just went to the can."
"So?
"He had his spell book with him."
"Sooo... start digging another latrine now?"
"Probably the best bet."