Fated Visitor (Vigilante Archetype)


Homebrew and House Rules


There are times when not all those who need to keep their idnetities hidden are not doing so because of their name, family history, or race, but because of their exterior origins.
Outsider Identity (Ex): A fated visitor's social identity is also one of race and origin. While a fated visitor's upbringing, starting age, and racial statistics are the same as one of his chosen PC race, he is actually an outsider sent to the Material Plane by chance, not discovering this information or unlocking his abilities until he takes his first vigilante level. Regardless of his chosen race, he is also treated as an Outsider for effects related to race, and has the Outsider traits listed in the Bestiary. While he is in his Social Identity, he still counts and detects as his chosen race, he does not detect as an Outsider in his social identity unless the one divining has knowledge of the fated visitor's secret identity. A fated visitor may gain an alignment subtype, so long as it matches the alignment of his Outsider Identity. This ability alters, but otherwise functions as Dual Identity.
Outsider Abilities (Su): A fated visitor's physiology adapts to its new home and becomes more powerful as it does. When in his outsider identity, the fated visitor gains an enhancement bonus to one of his physical ability scores and his natural armor equal to half his level (minimum 1). This ability score is chosen at first level, and once it is chosen it cannot be changed. Depending on which ability score he chose, he gains one of the following bonus feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (Strength), Dodge (Dexterity), or Toughness (Constitution).
At 4th, 8th, 14th, and 20th levels, a fated visitor gains a specific ability tied to his outsider physiology. These abilities count as vigilante talents, as onlookers who see the fated visitor in his social identity use them overtly might suspect him of being something more than he appears; the more obvious supernatural abilities impart a –10 penalty on the fated visitior’s Disguise check to appear as his social identity. This replaces vigilante specialization and the vigilante talents gained at 4th, 8th, 14th, and 20th levels.
Heightened Senses (Su): At 4th level, the fated visitor adds his enhancement bonus from his Outsider Abilities to his Perception checks. He gains the feat Alertness.
Flight (Su): At 8th level, the fated visitor gains a supernatural fly speed of 40ft (perfect). He gains the feat Flyby Attack.
Improved Abilities (Su): At 14th level the fated outsider gains selects a second physical ability score to gain his outsider abilities bonus. Fly becomes a class skill. He gains the feat associated with the second ability score.
Greater Abilities (Su): At 20th level, a fated visitor adds his outsider abilities bonus on all three of his physical ability scores. He gains the feat associated with the third ability score.
Golarionite (Ex): While the fated visitor's physiology seems to fair well with its environment on the Material Plane, it does also develop various weaknesses to certain materials, while resisting many more. The fated visitor uses d12s to determine it's hit dice every level instead of the usual d8, in addition he treats his base Fortitude saving throw as having the same value as both his Reflex and Will saving throws. He also gains Damage Reduction equal to half his level that is bypassed by magic or a special material chosen from the following list: Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, Cold Iron, Elysium Bronze, Fire-Forged Steel, Frost-Forged Steel, Greenwood, Living Steel, Mithral, Silversheen, Viridium, Whipwood, or Wyroot. If the fated visitor is struck by such a weapon, he must make a fortitude save DC = 10+ the weapon's hit points or both be sickened and lose all his (Su) outsider abilities for 1 minute. In addition, any enemy that successfully hits the fated outsider with such a weapon is treated as having the Weapon Material Mastery feat (WMH), but only during the round that the fated visitor is struck and damaged by the weapon. This alters the hit die, base saves, and replaces the vengeance strike ability. A fated visitor is considered weak to magic, and thus cannot progress further in any spellcasting classes once he has attained a level of this class.


Instead of "cannot progress" in any casting classes, what about "suffers a 100% spell failure chance"? Or 10% per class level?

Also, certain materials are more prevalent than others.

Perhaps you get Fly as a class skill once you can actually fly, instead of several levels later?

DR equal to 1/2 level is a fairly major class feature. You get a lot at level 1, and don't give up too much. Perhaps you replace something else at level 1? Such as reducing skill points to 4/level or 2/level? Or pushing back your enhancement bonuses to after level 4?


Definitely forgot to nerf skills.
That should be a thing.
Spell failure doesn't have an effect on divine casting I'm afraid.
I could scale the enhancement bonus to match the barbarian, but I specically didn't want to give him too many options that combined with magic items.


master_marshmallow wrote:

Definitely forgot to nerf skills.

That should be a thing.
Spell failure doesn't have an effect on divine casting I'm afraid.
I could scale the enhancement bonus to match the barbarian, but I specically didn't want to give him too many options that combined with magic items.

Not arcane spell failure. Just general spell failure, like that magic-negating sin metal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
My Self wrote:

Instead of "cannot progress" in any casting classes, what about "suffers a 100% spell failure chance"? Or 10% per class level?

Also, certain materials are more prevalent than others.

Perhaps you get Fly as a class skill once you can actually fly, instead of several levels later?

DR equal to 1/2 level is a fairly major class feature. You get a lot at level 1, and don't give up too much. Perhaps you replace something else at level 1? Such as reducing skill points to 4/level or 2/level? Or pushing back your enhancement bonuses to after level 4?

It's DR/magic though, which just gets more and more worthless as time goes on.


Revan wrote:
My Self wrote:

Instead of "cannot progress" in any casting classes, what about "suffers a 100% spell failure chance"? Or 10% per class level?

Also, certain materials are more prevalent than others.

Perhaps you get Fly as a class skill once you can actually fly, instead of several levels later?

DR equal to 1/2 level is a fairly major class feature. You get a lot at level 1, and don't give up too much. Perhaps you replace something else at level 1? Such as reducing skill points to 4/level or 2/level? Or pushing back your enhancement bonuses to after level 4?

It's DR/magic though, which just gets more and more worthless as time goes on.

More or less my intention.

The character historically is weak to magic, so it seemed to fit.


It's DR/(magic and special material)? Or DR/(magic or special material)?


My Self wrote:
It's DR/(magic and special material)? Or DR/(magic or special material)?

Or, specifically.


This seems unbalanced and in need of correction to me. Here are some things I wanted to note. First off, it's a very long post, and I hope you'll understand that it's because I took the time to read and consider your idea and I want you to know my thoughts, not because I like to ramble, but because if this is important to you, I am going to treat it that way.

Outsider Identity (Ex) wrote:
... Regardless of his chosen race, he is also treated as an Outsider for effects related to race, and has the Outsider traits listed in the Bestiary. While he is in his Social Identity, he still counts and detects as his chosen race, he does not detect as an Outsider in his social identity unless the one divining has knowledge of the fated visitor's secret identity.

Being an outsider grants a lot of immunities to spells that only affect humanoids, it's pretty potent. That includes getting darkvision but also, since he's an outsider (not a native outsider), does he need to eat, drink, or sleep anymore? Does he still count as an Outsider while in his social identity? I get that he might count as a humanoid (elf), but does he still count as an Outsider if someone uses hold person on him in his social identity, or does he always have the benefits of the Outsider type at all times? Is he no longer a body and soul? Are they now one, meaning he can't be raised or resurrected normally once he takes his first vigilante level? Should be addressed. Not having to eat or sleep or be subject to a whole slew of spells is pretty hefty stuff.

Outsider Abilities (Su) wrote:
A fated visitor's physiology adapts to its new home and becomes more powerful as it does. When in his outsider identity, the fated visitor gains an enhancement bonus to one of his physical ability scores and his natural armor equal to half his level (minimum 1). This ability score is chosen at first level, and once it is chosen it cannot be changed.

Okay, I may not understand this 'change' completely but I don't know if it should be Supernatural (Su) or not. Is the vigilante actually the creature (though growing into his body) or is he a person that is magically taking the form? If he's the creature, why are his abilities going away in an antimagic field, for instance? Either he is the creature or there's magic involved making him 'seem' to be the creature. I understand if certain other abilities he gets may not work, but either he is the creature or he isn't the creature.

I also understand you may have listed it (Su) for purposes of him getting hit with special materials (below under Golarionite).

Quote:
Depending on which ability score he chose, he gains one of the following bonus feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (Strength), Dodge (Dexterity), or Toughness (Constitution).

This is fine, but that's a very small little list. That's great if you're looking at it like a 1st-level character taking this. The problem here is that those feats are some of the most basic, easy to get feats around. You make no allowance for if a PC already possesses one. Obviously the simple answer is 'Too bad' but I think that in this case that's a horrible oversight.

Pretty much any Monk is going to get Improved Unarmed Strike and then getting their first level of vigilante and this means they get nothing (they can choose something other than Strength, but that's cutting off that whole 3rd of choices.) Also, you need to look ahead. At 14th and 20th, they get the 2nd and 3rd physical bonuses and those corresponding feats. Obviously at level 20, who cares what they're doing, but at 14th, you think if they wanted Dodge or Toughness or Improved Unarmed Strike they wouldn't have it? If they don't have it by then, it's because they probably don't need/want it and if they do, then that's a whole supposed 'benefit' of their ability that is wasted or lost because there's no alternate or allowance for a PC having that (very likely and easily acquirable) feat.

Your best choice in my opinion is to have a short list of associated feats (mentioning that prerequisites must still be met) for each physical stat and have the PC select one from the list.
Example: Strength- Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Improved Bullrush, Cleave, etc.
Dexterity- Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise (still need Int 13), Deadly Combat, Lightning Reflexes, etc.
Constitution- Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Run, Athletic, Great Fortitude, etc.

The lists don't have to be too long, but basically ones that a 1st-level character could have. This way if a PC already has Endurance, they can get Diehard or Toughness and not get 'screwed' out of a feat.

Quote:
Heightened Senses (Su): At 4th level, the fated visitor adds his enhancement bonus from his Outsider Abilities to his Perception checks. He gains the feat Alertness.

This one seems okay. If you wanted to take into account a PC already having Alertness, such a wizard with a familiar or just having the feat. You could allow a choice of Skill Focus (Perception) or Skill Focus (Sense Motive) in that case.

Quote:

Flight (Su): At 8th level, the fated visitor gains a supernatural fly speed of 40ft (perfect). He gains the feat Flyby Attack.

Improved Abilities (Su): At 14th level ... Fly becomes a class skill. ...

So he gets a perfect fly speed at 8th... and 6 levels later Fly becomes a class skill? I just don't see it as being worth the wait. Let's look at this realistically from a game perspective. At level 8, you get the ability to fly, which means you can now put points into the skill. 6 levels (!) later, you get this ability benefit that it's now a class skill. That means you... basically are going to get a +3 skill bonus to the skill, because you should have at least 1 rank in there by then. That's basically what's happening. Nevermind you're already getting a +8 from having the Perfect Fly speed and most likely the benefits from having +7 to your Dex for being 14th level (unless it was the one physical stat you didn't choose.) Just make Fly a class skill at 8th level when they get to fly.

Quote:
Greater Abilities (Su): At 20th level, a fated visitor adds his outsider abilities bonus on all three of his physical ability scores. He gains the feat associated with the third ability score.

"Alright, I finally get Toughness! I didn't want to 'waste' a free feat by getting it earlier."

Okay, just kidding, we already talked about that.

Quote:
Golarionite (Ex): ...The fated visitor uses d12s to determine it's hit dice every level instead of the usual d8...

A d12 HD is a very exclusive club for classes to receive and I don't know many creatures that get that either. Even undead have been dropped to d8s since 3.5. The good news is that Outsiders seem to get d10s now, even the most powerful ones. You want a tougher Vigilante, you want it based on Outsiders, drop this to d10.

Quote:
...in addition he treats his base Fortitude saving throw as having the same value as both his Reflex and Will saving throws.

I am not sure I understand this. Are you saying that while a Vigilante normally has 2 good saves (reflex and Will) that this archetype has 3 good saves?

So, if a 1st-level character becomes a Fated Visitor Vigilante, their base saves are Fort +2, Ref +2, and Will +2 instead of +0, +2, and +2 respectively?
Meaning a 10th-level Fated Visitor has Fort +7, Ref +7, and Will +7 instead of a normal Vigilante's +3, +7, and +7?

What you have written here is confusing. So what if a PC was a 2nd-level wizard (+3 Will base) and took a level of Fated Visitor. The way you have it written, they'd have Fort 0, Ref +2, and Will +5. Now their Fort is supposed to be the same value as Reflex and will, but his base Reflex is +2 and his base Will is +5.

I think what you meant to write is along the lines of 'The Fated Visitor has all good saves instead of the Vigilante's 2 good saves (Reflex and Will).' That will neatly address multiclasses.

Having said that, I think that's kind of powerful. I wouldn't mind this archetype having the option to choose which 2 saves are good at 1st level and not being able to change that once chosen.

Quote:
He also gains Damage Reduction equal to half his level that is bypassed by magic or a special material chosen from the following list: ...

Here's the problem I have with this. If I read your ability and the answers you've given then that means at 1st-level, on choosing Fated Visitor the PC chooses to gain either DR/magic or DR/(something from that list.

First problem, it's half class level, which is fine, except you don't give it a minimum of 1 so it's to be assumed that they don't actually get DR 1/ (whatever) until level 2. That's fair, but you also need to point out that they are still subject to the weakness and danger from the material which bypasses their DR (which they don't have until 2nd level at least). Not a biggie.

Second, you've given the PC an option of choosing magic, or choosing from a long list of other materials, some of which will probably never be encountered ever. Who in their right mind is going to chose 'magic' when that means you are going to be subject to the penalties of your weakness about 80% more often than choosing say, 'silversheen' or 'greenwood'. The way you have it written, I don't know if you intended it to apply to the DR/magic choice or only if the PC chooses from the special material list, but the way its written anyone choosing DR/magic is an imbecile.

Continuing:

Quote:
Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, Cold Iron, Elysium Bronze, Fire-Forged Steel, Frost-Forged Steel, Greenwood, Living Steel, Mithral, Silversheen, Viridium, Whipwood, or Wyroot. ... In addition, any enemy that successfully hits the fated outsider with such a weapon is treated as having the Weapon Material Mastery feat (WMH), but only during the round that the fated visitor is struck and damaged by the weapon.

Coincidentally enough, the list of special materials seems to sync perfectly with the Weapon Material Mastery feat, odd that.

First off, I don't want to have to look up some whole other feat whenever this happens, second of all... most of the materials will have little to no actual effect on a Fated Visitor in all but the rarest of cases (possibly a social or vigilante talent that counts as an illusion) or an ally casting an AC-boosting spell.

You're already bypassing their DR if you hit them with an Adamantine weapon. They probably aren't a magical beast or monstrous humanoid if you hit them with Elysian Bronze. Fire- or Frost-forged steel isn't going to get charged with energy because you hit them, etc.

Quote:
If the fated visitor is struck by such a weapon, he must make a fortitude save DC = 10+ the weapon's hit points or both be sickened and lose all his (Su) outsider abilities for 1 minute.

Okay, the problem with this is that I don't want to have to look up the hit points of every weapon that might be hitting the Fated Visitor, and not only that, need to look up the hit points of the special material that the weapon is made from. Then I don't want to have to decide whether its based off the total hit points or the weapon's current hit points if it's been damaged or has the broken condition.

Also, this makes certain choices way more dangerous than others. What Fated Visitor is going to pick Adamantine instead of Silversheen or Greenwood. Aside from the sheer commonality/rarity of certain material types, an Adamantine weapon is going to have way more hit points than a Silversheen or Darkwood weapon. Let's say a weapon has 15 hit points, if it's adamantine, it's about 1/3rd more, or 20. That means if you chose adamantine, you've basically just added 1/3rd the difficulty to your Fortitude DC to get F'ed in the A for 1 minute. Whereas choosing Elysian Bronze or Fire-/Frost-forged weapons, mean you're getting a lower DC equal to any other iron or steel weapon, not to mention they're probably much rarer to encounter.

Keep it simple, Just give them DR (half level)/magic or silver. You want more than that give them Silver Vulnerability and require a simple DC 15 Fortitude save or be Sickened for 1 minute if struck by a silver weapon (alchemical, actual, or silversheen).

In closing, this archetype is vastly more powerful than the base class, not just in different ways but in almost all ways. It's an interesting concept and it can work in some methods with a little editing and adjustment.

Good luck.


Pizza Lord wrote:

This seems unbalanced and in need of correction to me. Here are some things I wanted to note. First off, it's a very long post, and I hope you'll understand that it's because I took the time to read and consider your idea and I want you to know my thoughts, not because I like to ramble, but because if this is important to you, I am going to treat it that way.

Outsider Identity (Ex) wrote:
... Regardless of his chosen race, he is also treated as an Outsider for effects related to race, and has the Outsider traits listed in the Bestiary. While he is in his Social Identity, he still counts and detects as his chosen race, he does not detect as an Outsider in his social identity unless the one divining has knowledge of the fated visitor's secret identity.

Being an outsider grants a lot of immunities to spells that only affect humanoids, it's pretty potent. That includes getting darkvision but also, since he's an outsider (not a native outsider), does he need to eat, drink, or sleep anymore? Does he still count as an Outsider while in his social identity? I get that he might count as a humanoid (elf), but does he still count as an Outsider if someone uses hold person on him in his social identity, or does he always have the benefits of the Outsider type at all times? Is he no longer a body and soul? Are they now one, meaning he can't be raised or resurrected normally once he takes his first vigilante level? Should be addressed. Not having to eat or sleep or be subject to a whole slew of spells is pretty hefty stuff.

Outsider Abilities (Su) wrote:
A fated visitor's physiology adapts to its new home and becomes more powerful as it does. When in his outsider identity, the fated visitor gains an enhancement bonus to one of his physical ability scores and his natural armor equal to half his level (minimum 1). This ability score is chosen at first level, and once it is chosen it cannot be changed.
Okay, I may not understand this 'change' completely but I don't know if it should be...

I think you missed the point on a lot of the stuff.

You become an outsider, and I probably need to throw in language that says you are still susceptible to attacks which target your base race. You're supposed to count as both. I guess I could make you an Outsider [native] but I'm not sure if that includes the Darkvision package.

d10's, good Fort, and full BAB are probably the right choice. As (Ex) abilities. I want it to function like a really strong monk, but not against magic.

Assume I include the language from all the vigilante talents which includes something along the lines of: "if you already have this feat you can take another one instead" to avoid clunky lists of feats.

My goal was to have all good saves, but have them all take a negative against spells and spell-like abilities.

It's supposed to be DR/magic or [material]. As in, you have to take both, and you get hurt by either. In the lore, the character is weak to magic attacks, and has a specific weakness. The abilities listed as (Su) are there in that form specifically to be negated by this. I can nix the material mastery stuff, but I intended to fund a more balanced way to calculate the save and determine the effect that the weapon inflicts. Possibly fort save vs. damage dealt or be staggered? Could work or could be awful.

The whole Fly becoming a class skill thing later was a typo, it was meant to come in at 8th when you get your fly speed.

Skills also need to be dropped to 4, maybe even 2.

The class is designed to force you to go 20 levels in it or not gain enough benefit from it. The enhancement bonuses before 10th level can all be replaced on other characters by magic items, so I'm not worried about that balance wise.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Fated Visitor (Vigilante Archetype) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules