Okay, I've always disliked standard point buy because the number of points you have spend increases the higher you increase a stat. This has always ruffled my feathers, just a bit. It adds an exponential cost curve, which makes the system less straight forward.
So here's the challenge: How would you create a straight forward point buy system where each point spent increases a stat by 1, yet allows the GM to potentialy keep the power level about the same as standard point buy?
I've got my own ideas, but I want to hear the suggestions of others first. Go.
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The only way I could imagine it creating realistic characters is to restrict the number of dump stats, and how deep they dump them. Then pick an average you can live with, 12-13.5 is pretty reasonable for heroes, and so give them that x6 points, and let them assign them.
The point buy system as presented in the PRD is a boon to MAD classes, while they can't have awesome stats in all their stats, they can instead choose to have good stats in a couple abilities.
Only allow buying stats up to 16 or down to 8, with all starting at 10. Give 12 points.
That gives you between 12 and 24 points in the current version of point buy, but almost always between 15 and 20 unless someone is actively trying to mess with the system.
Actually that is almost exactly what I came up with. The only difference was that I would probably say 15 points as the default.
It adds an exponential cost curve and makes the system less straight forward.
The cost curve is not exponential, it's linear, or step. On the other hand, the odds of *rolling* those particularly high ability scores *is* exponentially reduced.
1:1 isn't realistic to people, or rolling, but the advice in this thread could make it somewhat workable if you really just had to have it. 16,16,10,10,10,10 is a reasonable stat array. Or even 16x3,8x3.
It adds an exponential cost curve and makes the system less straight forward.The cost curve is not exponential, it's linear, or step. On the other hand, the odds of *rolling* those particularly high ability scores *is* exponentially reduced.
1:1 isn't realistic to people, or rolling, but the advice in this thread could make it somewhat workable if you really just had to have it. 16,16,10,10,10,10 is a reasonable stat array. Or even 16x3,8x3.
I suppose increasing cost for stat increase makes sense from a Law of Diminishing Returns point of view...
For a more far-reaching change, you could use a 1:1 point system, but a non-linear relationship between attribute and attribute bonus.
E.g.,
10-11 (+0)
12-14 (+1)
15-19 (+2)
20-26 (+3)
27-35 (+4)
This way, you could still spend all 20 of your attribute points on charisma while still having only a +4 bonus.
I can see 1:1 only working if you do something like the absolutely hated or loved priority system from shadowrun.
Okay, I've always disliked standard point buy because the number of points you have spend increases the higher you increase a stat. This has always ruffled my feathers, just a bit. It adds an
exponentialcost curve, which makes the system less straight forward.So here's the challenge: How would you create a straight forward point buy system where each point spent increases a stat by 1, yet allows the GM to potentialy keep the power level about the same as standard point buy?
I've got my own ideas, but I want to hear the suggestions of others first. Go.
PF rewards specialization, and a +3/+3/+1/+1/0/-2 array, or a +4/+2/+1/+1/0/-2 array, are just better than +2/+2/+2/+1/+1/+1. Any 1:1 point buy is going to result in maxed out stats and dumped stats, the only difference being the new floors and ceilings your system imposes.
Sadly, there isn't a "fair" way to do things and still have Pathfinder. Some classes benefit by spending all points into a single attribute, while some classes have features that encourage two or more attributes to have equal attention.
A 1 to 1 scale will only encourage players to grab up the single attribute classes, since the cost penalty has decreased.
Some games have a bit of balance on the point buy front (GURPs for example). I have seen Amber games do this by asking the players to rate what stats or abilities they want to have as a priority, while the GM makes the stats and never reveals the result to the players. Then again, Amber is quite a different game and it is very possible that your fellow PCs may end up to be your opponents, so it creates a certain unease when players don't know how powerful their PC is to the other PCs.
One method in Pathfinder I tend to favor is the choice between point buy, or a modest array that is 10% to 20% more "points" than the point buy choice. Players can take the point buy and adjust as normal. If they take the array, they will technically have a few more points than a point buy choice, yet the array has no stat below 10 and is fairly modest. Each player can make the choice for their PC, so single attribute classed PCs tend to pick point buy, while players that like multiple attribute dependent PCs tend to take the array.
For example - 20 point buy; or an array of 10, 12, 13, 13, 15, 15.
The array has 2 more points worth of stats, yet has no single high stat, nor any stat lower than 10.
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For example - 20 point buy; or an array of 10, 12, 13, 13, 15, 15.The array has 2 more points worth of stats, yet has no single high stat, nor any stat lower than 10.
While I think the "flexible point buy or fixed-but-superior array" is a nice way of buffing MAD classes, you should probably be careful to make sure that the array is in the right spot power wise.
The above array is something that I would rate as too weak. There is minimal difference between 12 and 13 unless you really need a 13 int, so for most classes the stat array is worse than a point buy. Most of the builds that do want a 13 are also happy dropping charisma, making the array only marginally better than a point buy for classes that it perfectly matches. Even for my current character (Archeo Bard using modern firearms), whose equivalent array would be 15,14,14,14,12,11,8 before racials (yay for MAD), I wouldn't take that array over his current 20pt buy (dropping wisdom by 1 and str by 1 is better than dropping Cha or Con by 1).
This is what I would suggest instead:
15,15,14,14,13,10
Most reasonably SAD classes won't find this significantly better than a point buy, while something like an Archer Bard will seriously consider it. The array still won't be a snap pick, however, because dumping one stat and shaving the 13 to a 12 is equivalent to a 22 point buy, meaning that there is only really a +2 to will and a couple of point buy points between the array and a fully flexible point buy. You could probably make the array even a little more stronger (boost the 10 to a 12, or the 13 to a 14) and people will still pick the point buy much of the time.
For point buy to work, different classes need to have different allotted points, and each class also needs to have negatives associated with them should someone multiclass.
Different class combinations will naturally yield different results, should a player multiclass.
Or just don't use a system that doesn't work.
Play Mutants & Masterminds, 2nd edition? :P
Seriously though, it's an excellent permutation of the d20 system (evolved from Green Ronin's "True 20" system). It's no longer officially supported (unfortunately, GR has moved on to 3rd editon of M&M, which I don't personally like as much). Don't let the superhero name and theme throw you off - in order to fully accommodate the far reaches of the genre, they had to make it a universal system that can handle everything from Thor (fantasy) to Guardians of the Galaxy (space opera).
It is fully point-buy - not just the Ability scores, but your Attack/Defense, Saves, skills, feats, powers, equipments, everything is bought with Power Points (PP). Better yet, there is no XP to calculate - after a successful adventure, you get a PP, just like the ones you build your character with, and you can spend it immediately or save it for a bigger purchase. This opens up an interesting option for "horizontal advancement", where the Power Level can be "locked in" by the GM, but you still expand your repertoire, which is much more useful for many types of gameplay than "zero-to-demigod" (you don't see the Punisher punching out Galactus).
Furthermore, it's classless, raceless, and effect-based, so the mechanics are like building with LEGO, rather than ordering off a menu. That means that a rifle, laser-eyes, and throwing knives are all a form of Damage (Ranged) effect, just with different modifiers, rather than having to have 3 separate sets of rules governing all of them. You can literally put together pretty much any power you can think of by tinkering with effects.
And another great thing is that everything you need to play is all in one Core Rulebook - everything for players to put together characters (including a bunch of pre-made character archetypes ready to go), equipment, everything for GMs, NPCs, main Villains, monsters, and even not one but two starting adventures! Sure, there are some splatbooks, but most of the material in them is on how to play various other genres, with a light sprinkling of actual rules mechanics (since the CRB covers everything so well, there really isn't much but more stat-blocks to add to it). You could literally play almost any setting with just the Core Rulebook, you do not need spatbooks to have a good time with this system because they did it right with the one Core Rulebook.
That said, the few splatbooks I would recommend are:
Warriors and Warlocks: actually has a lot of mechanical "crunch" for adapting M&M to fantasy gaming
Ultimate Power: Expands on the Powers, somewhat better organized and helpful in terms of creating the right power-set for your character.
Freedom City: Excellent 4-color superhero campaign setting, very well fleshed-out. Even if you don't plan on running a superhero game per se, it can be useful - I used it (modified) as the backdrop of my modern fantasy Urban Arcana campaign.
Mastermind's Manual: Basically the "Unearthed Arcana"/"Unchained" of M&M: a sourcebook of alternate rules to truly make the game your own.
The problem with a 1-for-1 system is that the value of ability score gains is not linear. It's quadratic.