So, I recently failed to fight curiosity and bought the herbalist pdf by Interjection Games. Now, of course, I have a few questions in hope I can understand a bit more clearly.
1) - When it comes to plants found via biome, when a plant has the x1 beside it, I assume that means you get 1 unit towards whatever its capacity is? For example, one rolls multiples of a plant, essentially getting x2 of the plant, and that plant has a capacity of x3, then you have 2 out of the 3 maximum you can have for that plant?
2) - Am I right in reading that the majority of the herbs are only usable by the herbalist and cannot be passed to party members unless they're liquids? Including chewables and poisons?
3) - Just to make sure, more than anything. Cultivation Pots allow growth of plants placed inside of them, as long as they stay in there (each night), where preservation vessels are meant to hold specific herbs you may have picked that day, so that they last longer right? And whatever you pick out of nature using the ability just lasts until night time, unless placed in a preservation vessel.
4) - In terms of character building, besides skill points, one primarily wants a higher INT just for the craft (alchemy) skill and not much else in terms of the herbalist class right? So one may be best off focusing on WIS where most of the class abilities are?
5) - With the Bounty of Nature, does it mean that if you have a green thumb pool of 9, that you can spend all of those points, and gain 18 units that they can use that day from their cultivation pot? Also, does this ability work with the Conservationalist's exotic cultivation pot ability?
6) - With preservation vessels, can an herb stay in there indefinitely until used or discarded?
7) - Can a conservationist use the extra pot feat to gain an extra exotic cultivation pot?
8) - Has anyone made a guide to the herbs and recipes? If so, could I be pointed to it?...
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1 - When you find herbs via the tables, you get the quantity listed, yes.
1a - The capacity of an herb is how many you can shove into a preservation vessel to keep fresh.
2 - Correct. The herbalist must be in contact with the herb at the moment of its effect unless it's a brewed or cooked item.
3 - You got it.
4 - You may also want some Dex for the inevitable poisoned needlegrass spam that makes the herbalist capable of dropping high CR enemies solo.
5 - Yeah, you can spam it for tons of something, and there's no reason it wouldn't.
6 - Forever and ever. The only limit is capacity.
7 - I don't think so. I renamed the class feature, didn't I? It's been awhile.
8 - Afraid not.
Ah, I didn't realize that one could use poisons on the other herbs such as splash weapons and maybe the one that acts like a club. Interesting. If only pathfinder had made feats to make poisons more potent.
As far as the extra pots go, I'll have to check again when I get home, but I think the conservationist only added "exotic" to the front of "cultivation pot". Thus, why I wasn't 100% sure on it. Either way, the conservationist seems solid.
Anyways, thank you very much for answering my questions sir.
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8) - Has anyone made a guide to the herbs and recipes? If so, could I be pointed to it?...
I think the beauty of the class is exactly the near impossibility of being prepared (other than the pots, vases, the plant that alters the biome around you and that archetype that has a biome-familiar) - you just wake up, roll for your daily powers and organize on the go. So handy for people who dread managing a spellbook with hundreds of spells, and quite an unique experience compared to regular pathfinder classes, where planning ahead is mandatory. It certainly stimulates your improvisational skills.
4) - In terms of character building, besides skill points, one primarily wants a higher INT just for the craft (alchemy) skill and not much else in terms of the herbalist class right? So one may be best off focusing on WIS where most of the class abilities are?
Vanilla herbalist is certainly also built for DEX, with all the splash damage herbs available, ranged attack herbs and all the poisons that can be applied to arrows or bolts. If you were to make a melee herbalist, I'd go with the conservationist archetype, picking first the giant carnivorous plant that you carry on your back (the visual alone!), followed by the magical weapon plant.
Now that you have joined the herbalist appreciation society, don't forget to enhance your experience with these freebies:
Welcome to the Jungle: The Tropics Biome for the Herbalist Base Class
Herbalist – New Rare Plants for the Conservationist Archetype
I think the beauty of the class is exactly the near impossibility of being prepared (other than the pots, vases, the plant that alters the biome around you and that archetype that has a biome-familiar) - you just wake up, roll for your daily powers and organize on the go. So handy for people who dread managing a spellbook with hundreds of spells, and quite an unique experience compared to regular pathfinder classes, where planning ahead is mandatory. It certainly stimulates your improvisational skills.
Very true. I suppose a guide is largely useless when you get what you get and there's little choice involved. Then it's just down to personal preference and hoping you get something you can or want to use, potting them, and then stuffing the rest into your pockets in case you end up wanting them.
Vanilla herbalist is certainly also built for DEX, with all the splash damage herbs available, ranged attack herbs and all the poisons that can be applied to arrows or bolts. If you were to make a melee herbalist, I'd go with the conservationist archetype, picking first the giant carnivorous plant that you carry on your back (the visual alone!), followed by the magical weapon plant.
It almost seems to me like the class is indirectly multiple attribute dependent. Of course one would want their WIS as high as they can get it, followed by DEX or STR for whichever direction they intend to go battle wise, and most of the plants that emulate weapons aren't finesse able (club, whip, etc...) so you have to commit to STR, unless you rely solely on the man eating plant from the conservationist and don't want a good chance to hit with the normal melee herbs. Then INT to get those skill ranks and (for me a lesser extent) craft (alchemy) for the recipes. And of course if you choose Melee, then you'll want more health, so CON is in order. Unless you go toughness I suppose. It's an interesting little puzzle.
I'm thinking my first crack at the class will be a conservationist with the man eating plant, focusing on using ranged stuff (herbs if they get them) bow if not. I really want to put my INT at 12 as I'm not much into the recipes at the moment, but I hate being low on skills haha
Thanks for the links! Really appreciate the conservationist rare plants especially.
Thanks again for all the info everyone.
EDIT:
Here's a quick test character I tossed together. Any thoughts? Anything I'm missing in particular?
Conservationist Herbalist lv. 8, 25 point buy, half-elf
Attributes -
STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 22
CHA: 7
Traits -
Student of Philosophy
Sense Motive Trait
Reactionary
Drawback -
Paranoid
Feats -
1st
Skill Focus (Craft (Alchemy)) [Half-elf Bonus]
Improved Initiative
3rd
Point-Blank Shot
5th
Precise Shot
7th
Leadership
Skills -
Perception: 8 ranks + 3 class bonus + 6 WIS + 2 Half-Elf = +19
Craft (Alchemy): 8 ranks + 3 class bonus + 2 INT + 3 Skill Focus = +16
Sense Motive: 8 ranks + 3 class bonus + 6 WIS + 1 trait = +18
Knowledge (Nature): 8 ranks + 3 class bonus + 2 INT = +13
Survival: 1 rank + 3 class bonus + 6 WIS = +10
Diplomacy: 1 rank + 2 INT = +3
Bluff: 1 rank + 2 INT = +3
Equipment -
Alchemy Equipment
Mithril Shirt
Longbow
Ammo
Club
Dagger
Stats -
Initiative: +4
HP: 64
AC: 16, 12 touch, 14 flat footed
Fort: +7
Refl: +4
Will: +12
CMB: +6
CMD: 12
To Hit (Melee): +6
To Hit (Ranged): +8
Green Thumb Pool = 11
Exotic Cultivation Pots = 2
- Golden Yarrow
- Mantrap
Preservation Vessels = 3
Herb DC (generally) = 20
Number of Rolls for Find Herbs ability = 4
Herbalist, eh? I'm curious. Would you consider doing a 5e conversion?
I've been looking at the economics of doing so, actually. Once I get a handle on the system, and if it's doable, there's a chance I'd abandon Pathfinder altogether (or go halfsies with the new hotness) to do 5e, and then my own system. The money keeps demanding more to gain it, so I believe there's some resistance to the production of new rules for a system as mature as PF.
I think the beauty of the class is exactly the near impossibility of being prepared (other than the pots, vases, the plant that alters the biome around you and that archetype that has a biome-familiar) - you just wake up, roll for your daily powers and organize on the go. So handy for people who dread managing a spellbook with hundreds of spells, and quite an unique experience compared to regular pathfinder classes, where planning ahead is mandatory. It certainly stimulates your improvisational skills.Very true. I suppose a guide is largely useless when you get what you get and there's little choice involved. Then it's just down to personal preference and hoping you get something you can or want to use, potting them, and then stuffing the rest into your pockets in case you end up wanting them.
Vanilla herbalist is certainly also built for DEX, with all the splash damage herbs available, ranged attack herbs and all the poisons that can be applied to arrows or bolts. If you were to make a melee herbalist, I'd go with the conservationist archetype, picking first the giant carnivorous plant that you carry on your back (the visual alone!), followed by the magical weapon plant.It almost seems to me like the class is indirectly multiple attribute dependent. Of course one would want their WIS as high as they can get it, followed by DEX or STR for whichever direction they intend to go battle wise, and most of the plants that emulate weapons aren't finesse able (club, whip, etc...) so you have to commit to STR, unless you rely solely on the man eating plant from the conservationist and don't want a good chance to hit with the normal melee herbs. Then INT to get those skill ranks and (for me a lesser extent) craft (alchemy) for the recipes. And of course if you choose Melee, then you'll want more health, so CON is in order. Unless you go toughness I suppose. It's an interesting little puzzle.
I'm thinking my first crack at the class will be a conservationist...
You've got the big points down, though I have to say that I, personally, am so hooked on poison spam that you couldn't pay me to give up a cultivation pot with needlegrass in it.
Herbalist, eh? I'm curious. Would you consider doing a 5e conversion?
Yeah, I'll be aiming for some of the easier classes first, but jumping on the new hotness sounds like a fantastic idea.
Needlegrass does seem good for sure, but since it only is available in 2 biomes, that one may or may not come across in an entire campaign, and one may or may not find via luck of the roll, and a chunk of common enemy types being immune to poisons outright (something one needs to wait tI'll 17th level to partially alleviate), I'm not sure it's something I can be excited enough about before a game to make the choice of going vanilla herbalist. That said, needlegrass itself is a very solid herb, even without poisons and I suppose if one went flowerchild they'd always have a chance (just can't cultivate or preserve if I recall correctly).
I do like the poisons being scalable, cultivatable and that one can come across them and not have to pay 2,000 gold for a solid poison haha
Actually makes me want to design my own poison base class, with poison creation and customization built in along with ways of getting it into normally immune beings. Actually sounds like fun. Could even base it off of the Alchemist. Make it an alternative class and give it a pool system...
Anyways, thanks again. I think I thought of something to vote on in your other thread that's herbalist related.
I'm thinking my first crack at the class will be a conservationist...
I kinda liked the crazy high wisdom - get the herbs DC way up there.
But I gotta say I don't see the point in a long ranged conservationist.
Giving up your cultivation pots is a huge deal (meaning you have to give up pretty much everything you find each day, even rare herbs), one that I can only justify in my mind by first having the mantrap carnivorous plant attacking every single round and the keenblade leaf temporary magical properties available for emergencies a close second. I don't particularly see a long ranged herbalist getting much use out of the mantrap nor weapon bonuses, with all the splash herbs.
Golden Yarrow? There's healing in almost every biome (I think only tundra - who ever adventures there? - and underground are the ones that doesn't), and at level 8 you'll roll plenty of healing, don't worry about it.
In your case I'd go vanilla herbalist, use a human for point blank & precise shot at first level, and grab the poison feats - after that start working towards cultivating fruit and fungus. I really like to go for class specific feats.
Without cultivation pots, recipes are crazy hard to be completed - it's already tough enough to collect all ingredients (you pretty much always have to use ubiquitine to replace something), but with barely having a way to keep them overnight is just nuts.
I see you didn't pick any recipes, so I have the following suggestions:
- Extremophilic Elixir (the specifitines are hard to come by, but the effect this one has is great);
- Nullmagic Elixir (3 of the same plant and a nice effect);
- Proximity Shardbloom (only 2 ingredients and a low DC, a good one to replace with ubiquitine once you get either of them);
- Thornpalm Elixir (a hard one, but really good damage if you can get it, with a killer critical side-effect);
- Yarrow Paste (yarrows are easy to find, and you can just replace the hair of the mountain with an ubiquitine).
And don't forget to crank up your craft roll with an alchemist lab, aid another and such.
I'm thinking my first crack at the class will be a conservationist...I kinda liked the crazy high wisdom - get the herbs DC way up there.
But I gotta say I don't see the point in a long ranged conservationist.
Giving up your cultivation pots is a huge deal (meaning you have to give up pretty much everything you find each day, even rare herbs), one that I can only justify in my mind by first having the mantrap carnivorous plant attacking every single round and the keenblade leaf temporary magical properties available for emergencies a close second. I don't particularly see a long ranged herbalist getting much use out of the mantrap nor weapon bonuses, with all the splash herbs.
Golden Yarrow? There's healing in almost every biome (I think only tundra - who ever adventures there? - and underground are the ones that doesn't), and at level 8 you'll roll plenty of healing, don't worry about it.
In your case I'd go vanilla herbalist, use a human for point blank & precise shot at first level, and grab the poison feats - after that start working towards cultivating fruit and fungus. I really like to go for class specific feats.
Without cultivation pots, recipes are crazy hard to be completed - it's already tough enough to collect all ingredients (you pretty much always have to use ubiquitine to replace something), but with barely having a way to keep them overnight is just nuts.
I see you didn't pick any recipes, so I have the following suggestions:
- Extremophilic Elixir (the specifitines are hard to come by, but the effect this one has is great);
- Nullmagic Elixir (3 of the same plant and a nice effect);
- Proximity Shardbloom (only 2 ingredients and a low DC, a good one to replace with ubiquitine once you get either of them);
- Thornpalm Elixir (a hard one, but really good damage if you can get it, with a killer critical side-effect);
- Yarrow Paste (yarrows are easy to find, and you can just replace the hair of the mountain with an ubiquitine)....
Thanks for the input. I'm not stuck to the long range route, in fact I'm not sure which I want to go build wise (stats were very difficult to figure out for me in this class haha). On the one hand, some of the ranged herbs can be pretty nice and I may come across them or may not, on the other, a scythe wielding herbalist with a man eater plant on its back sounds fun, and I like cattail as a weapon herb melee wise.
Good call on the Golden Yarrow. It seems good once you get to 10th though. Being able to potentially bring back allies from death seems pretty impressive.
I didn't pick recipes because there weren't many that really intrigued me, especially given that a lot have the high DCs and require herbs I may not even have available in my campaigns biomes.
One that stood out to me was the strawberry wine, that seemed pretty cool.
Extremophilic Elixir confuses me. I mean, I guess it'd help if you fall in lava or something, but then when you manage to get out, you're hurting just the same anyways. Not sure how best to use it, as right now, you're just forcing yourself to wade in whatever dangerous hazard you're in until the effects wear off and then quickly hop out.
Yarrow Paste and Thornpaw seem pretty good though. Proximity Shardbloom seems alright if you're doing stealth and know where the enemies are coming.
I'm not sure which poison feats you meant and I'm not sure I want to focus on poison since there's still a chunk of fairly common enemy types immune to it.
All that said, I may actually go the vanilla herbalist route as you suggest, even if I don't go the ranged route. Cultivation of standard herbs does seem quite handy, slightly more so than a man eating plant. Especially if I come across an herb that manages to strike my fancy.
Thanks again for all the insight!
Edit: QUESTION! So, when using the find herbs ability, do you have to use all the available rolls at once? Or can you save some of them for when you enter a different biome / environment?
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All at once, though if you pick herbs near the border of a couple of biomes, you can pick and choose between both of them. The sub-biomes system will be making this more important.
Extremophilic Elixir confuses me. I mean, I guess it'd help if you fall in lava or something, but then when you manage to get out, you're hurting just the same anyways. Not sure how best to use it, as right now, you're just forcing yourself to wade in whatever dangerous hazard you're in until the effects wear off and then quickly hop out.
I'm not sure which poison feats you meant and I'm not sure I want to focus on poison since there's still a chunk of fairly common enemy types immune to it.
Instead of emergencies, I see extremophilic elixir more as a planned thing - if someone has to enter the lava to activate/grab something, just send the herbalist in, he can go unscathed for level/minutes and get the job done. Like an environment energy resistance, you just have to time it properly.
Persistent Poisoner and Rapid Poisoner, from the herbalist feats page.
Poison isn't very popular in Pathfinder, but this class probably is the best at it, with the ease to acquire and the sometimes progression of effects attached to herbalist level.
All at once, though if you pick herbs near the border of a couple of biomes, you can pick and choose between both of them. The sub-biomes system will be making this more important.
Good to know, thanks.
Must have overlooked the poison feats. I will agree that the poisons in this book seem to mostly take care of 2 of the 3 biggest problems for poison users. I've begun working on a homebrew poison class to tackle all 3 (or more) myself. I love the idea of poisons, they're just not all that effective to use most of the time in the normal non-3rd party pathfinder rules.