Feat for hybrid classes - game balance

[Baba Ganoush]

I have a player that would like their hybrid class to count as one of it's parent classes (there are a lot of effects in the AP geared towards one of the parent classes).

Would it be balanced to allow a feat for a hybrid to also count as one of it's parents for all purposes good and bad (items, feats, traps, favored enemy bonuses, etc.)?

Or for a feat should they be able to take only the good?

Or should they get the good & bad of their hybrid class and BOTH parent classes (like a half-elf counts as half-elf/human/elf for race - Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.)?

Without the feat would you give a hybrid class a slight bonus on the UMD check to imitate a class feature from a parent class or even allow them to attempt to imitate the whole class (e.g. a brawler could attempt to use a monk's robe, a shaman could attempt to use a cackling blouse, a bloodrager could attempt to use a Robe of Arcane Heritage)?

[Create Mr. Pitt]

This is way too complicated. I guess I might permit it depending on the class feature. But I am not sure I would just allow a catch-all like all the good/bad/features because it really depends on the feature and I wouldn't want ambiguity either. So I would really need to know, more specifically, what the class feature or features were.

[Deighton Thrane]

I would agree with Mr.Pitt. A blanket change to how items work can have far reaching repercussions. And Paizo has worked to give every class, including the hybrids, certain items that work only with a certain class. Usually this items are fairly powerful, and giving a hybrid class access to several of them probably isn't a great idea.

If this is a problem with a plot item, I would likely re-write the item so that it's actually usable by one of the PCs. But other than that, I would likely leave being able to use another classes items up to the UMD skill.

[DM Shade]

Do you mean a feat that will count one class towards contributing to another's progression?

Such as a monk-rogue feat that adds half monk levels to rogue levels to calculate sneak attacks, or vice versa for unarmed damage/wisdom bonus to AC?

[Trekkie90909]

There are a few directions you could take this:

A) Blanket approval that hybrids also count as parent classes.

This is how the playtest versions worked, and if you revert to this ruling I would recommend also reverting to the "No multi-classing with parent classes" ruling, as it saves a lot of headache. That said, as numerous people have already pointed out, the design team made the change strategically to optimize game balance with relation back to the parent classes.

B) Corner case approval that allows either i) the specific player character an exception, or ii) a 'tax' in the form of some resource (i.e. a feat-slot, or points in UMD) which allows the player whatever exception he's looking for.

My 2 cents is that taxes are bad, it's better to make blanket approvals OR make a side quest to acquire something 'free' of charge (besides, it's more fun that way). I could go on, but if this is the route you prefer it'd be a lot easier to just deal with the specifics (what does your player want to do?) of the problem than answer in general.

[Cyrad]

That sounds incredibly vague. Exactly what class features are we talking about here?

Do you really have traps in your campaign that target specific classes by name?

[Baba Ganoush]

Thanks for all of the input.

The AP in question is Reign of Winter. There is an Aasimar Flame/Lore Shaman in the group and a Gnome Unlettered Arcanist there were a number of times in Maiden, Mother and Crone that I felt they should have had some advantage

Spoiler:

In the main dungeon crawl there are a number of skill checks like, "A successful DC 20 Knowledge ....Any character with witch class levels gains a +10 circumstance bonus on this check."
For which I kind of felt the unlettered Arcanist (witch spells from a witch like familiar seems like the same "magical tradition" should have gotten some bonus.

And the Shaman (and probably the Arcanist may have wanted to go through the croning ritual "A witch who desires to undergo the croning ritual can bypass the glyphs' negative effects, though undergoing the full ritual transforms her into a crone."

and a side quest in White Throne put a Hag's Cackling Blouse and Hexing Runes in the parties hands (which they sold) but the Shaman would have liked to have been able to use.

and now we're just into The Frozen Stars

Spoiler:

If Syvet is brought back to life, any witch's familiars in the party immediately gain two new witch spells that their witches can now learn and prepare.

But apparently not a Shaman's spirit animal or an Unlettered Arcanist's familiar.

And I'd guess there will be more items, rituals, traps that are targeted to witches in the rest of the AP. Overall, I guess I feel like there isn't as much support for hybrid classes as for base classes. If a hybrid class had to select one or the other parent class at creation it would have given them a lot of item/feat selection automatically.

[Cyrad]

In those situations, you're better off just using GM fiat to determine whether or not a particular class is considered a witch for these circumstances.

[Trekkie90909]

Yeah, the AP doesn't consider hybrid classes since reign of winter ran the year before the advanced class guide's printing. It's easier and more reasonable to fiat the path's interaction with newer material so that it remains backwards compatible instead of re-balancing all the new material.