Command Undead / Followers in Pathfinder Society

[Guno]

From what I've heard, Undead count as followers for society rules, what is the limit on followers in society play? or are none allowed, My DMs were unsure on the ruling when our game ended this week.

[EricMcG]

Followers are not allowed, however there are vanities that offer assistants of various kinds, none of which convey any mechanical advantages from what I recall.

You can create undead during the scenario I believe, but they crumble to dust, along with everything else found in the scenario, when it is over. There were threads discussing this but I don't recall the final consensus answer.

[Viliym]

Guno wrote:

From what I've heard, Undead count as followers for society rules, what is the limit on followers in society play? or are none allowed, My DMs were unsure on the ruling when our game ended this week.

"Followers"?

Edit: ah, if you're referring to the Leadership feat, it is not allowed in PFS.

[Andreas Forster]

Indeed, you can't take the Leadership feat, so you can't get any followers from that source.

As EricMcG mentioned, you are allowed to create undead during a scenario, but you should be aware that: a) you don't get to keep them after the scenario, and b) depending on the creature you create the undead from, the GM might consider it an evil act.

There are follower vanities in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, which you can buy for PP, but those don't grant any mechanical benefits apart from what is detailed in their description. That means they don't have a statblock and will never participate in combat.
The limit of follower vanities you can have is your Charisma bonus (minimum 1).

[Viliym]

Andreas Forster wrote:

depending on the creature you create the undead from, the GM might consider it an evil act.

I should hope not.

When a neutral Cleric summons a Celestial Eagle I never see GMs threatening to mark their Chronicle Sheets with "so-and-so performed a good act".

[FLite]

GMs also do not mark chronicle sheets when you save someones life, or give alms to the poor. In fact GMs are not supposed to mark your sheet when you commit an evil act either. Only when you commit a single egregious act, or a series of evil acts that are sufficient to push you over the edge into evil, requiring an Atonement. That is the only time a GM is supposed to mark your sheet.

If a neutral cleric of an evil deity were commiting a series of good acts, I could see them eventually needing an atonement.

So, if your character were creating A. as series of undead, B. without any moral justification for why it was good or necessary, C. Without doing any good deeds that would offset their acts. Then yes, it could, over the course of the evening lead to a fall into evil. Of course, you would have to receive a warning from the GM first. That is also in the rules.

Note that creating undead, creatures that are by definition evil, via a process that severs the soul from their body, is evil regardless of whether the spell itself is evil merely because of the [evil] descriptor. Which is an entirely separate issue.

[FLite]

For the record, command undead is a seperate issue, as the undead are already created. And as far as I am aware, undead never count for followers under society rules, as followers are not allowed. That said, if any build is slowing down the table, whether it be a necromancer with his undead, a summoner with his summons, druid with natures allies, whatever, the GM is within his rights to ask you to scale back.

[FLite]

good deeds derail:

Okay, I now need an example of an Egregiously Good deed, parallel to the classic "burning down an orphanage or slaughtering unarmed peasants unprovoked" egregious evil deed.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dying in a fire dragging orphans out

[Nefreet]

A Cleric of Cayden giving away every drop of available ale, without saving one for themself.

[Guno]

Alright thanks. Just wanted to clarify to be sure I wasn't missing something somewhere. And yeah, I'm not about to make an undead out of a guard who was on my side :p

[Tindalen]

Nefreet wrote:

A Cleric of Cayden giving away every drop of available ale, without saving one for themself.

Be careful of such blasphemies spoken! You could have the entirety of the grand feast hall upon you for even thinking such things!

I had a true neutral envoy of balance cleric of Pharasma. Interfering in a battle between alignment opposed outsiders, to the benefit of either side, without reasonable moral justification would have, in my mind, put him into a moral quandary.

For him this would be an evil act that could or should lead to an atonement: "burning down an orphanage or slaughtering unarmed peasants unprovoked"
And this is would be a good act that could or should lead to an atonement: "saving orphans from a burning orphanage or saving peasants from being slaughtered unprovoked"

It would all depend upon the circumstances.