What are your opinions, suggestions, advice on this spell?
Here's the link to the most recent version of the spell: Dazing Blast. I'll be updating it as long as you provide feedbak. I'll be posting the last version on the thread just to keep here another copy of the updates.
EDIT: The idea behind this spell is to create a spell that just stop creatures in a close range, preventing them to take actions, for more than one round, but cause no additional penalties and deal no damage.
DAZING BLAST v0.1
School evocation (generation) [mind-affecting]
Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (--)
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration 1d4 rounds
Saving Throw Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance no
An invisible cone of sonic energy springs forth from your hand, causing creatures caught in the area to become dazed. The intensity of the blast is not high enough to cause sonic damage. Each creature within the cone can add the amount of HD above your caster level, if any, as a bonus to its saving throw. The effect can bypass barriers, but a creature can add a +2 bonus to its saving throw per each 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, or 3 feet of wood or dirt that provides total cover to it.
The idea behind this spell is to create a spell that just stop creatures in a close range, preventing them to take actions, for more than one round, but cause no additional penalties and deal no damage.
The spell looks like a mess, to be honest. The generation evocation subschool doesn't exist. The spell is a sonic attack using sonic energy but it doesn't have the sonic descriptor. It's a mind-affecting effect and yet Fortitude is the saving throw to negate it. Why doesn't Spell Resistance apply? SR should always apply unless the spell is a conjuration (creation) effect, a harmless buff, or an effect that doesn't make sense for SR to react to. The HD effect is overcomplicated and redundant since base saves scale with HD (HD spell limitations exist for an entirely different reason than you think they do). Daze usually only lasts 1 round.
Even beside that, the spell is kind of boring.
Ok, first update:
- Time reduced to 1d3 rounds.
- Changed Fortitude save for Will save.
- SR: yes.
DAZING BLAST v0.2
School evocation [sonic, mind-affecting]
Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (--)
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration 1d3 rounds
Saving Throw Will negates
Spell Resistance yes
An invisible cone of sonic energy springs forth from your hand, causing creatures caught in the area to become dazed. The intensity of the blast is not high enough to cause sonic damage.
Each creature within the cone can add the amount of HD above your caster level, if any, as a bonus to its saving throw.
The effect can bypass barriers, but a creature can add a +2 bonus to its saving throw per each 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, or 3 feet of wood or dirt that provides total cover to it.
The generation evocation subschool doesn't exist.
Here.
But maybe i'm wrong.The spell is a sonic attack using sonic energy but it doesn't have the sonic descriptor. It's a mind-affecting effect and yet Fortitude is the saving throw to negate it.
Fixed.
Why doesn't Spell Resistance apply? SR should always apply unless the spell is a conjuration (creation) effect, a harmless buff, or an effect that doesn't make sense for SR to react to.
Fixed.
But spells like Flurry of Snowballs doesn't follow your rule, why?The HD effect is overcomplicated and redundant since base saves scale with HD
Other daze/stun spells vary with HD.
For me to remember a subtraction is easier to remember than a table; "for taste, colors".(HD spell limitations exist for an entirely different reason than you think they do).
Please, explain me why, don't just say.
Please, don't assume what others think, you would be right, but wouldn't too.Daze usually only lasts 1 round.
Compare with Color Spray; Blind and Stun for 1d4 rounds? That's too aggressive for a lvl 1 spell. This is why i reduced the effect to just daze and cause it works with no HD limit, it is lvl 3.
Even beside that, the spell is kind of boring.
Depends in how you'll use it. You can, stop your stubborn allies to do something stupid with no harm to them; daze a creature you cannot defeat and use that time to escape; stop the guy with the alchemic fire from throwing it but you don't want him to drop it on your feet, etc.
It is a spell more suitable for a pacifier than a combat oriented caster.But well... some people would argue an evil caster can do bad things with it...
The generation evocation subschool doesn't exist.Here.
But maybe i'm wrong.
Spell schools and subschools are listed in the Magic chapter. They're important because they indicate special rules. If a spell says transmutation (polymorph), it tells you that polymorph rules apply.
What you show there is a wizard class option, not a subschool. Some of the focused arcane schools are inspired by subschools, but not all of them.
Why doesn't Spell Resistance apply? SR should always apply unless the spell is a conjuration (creation) effect, a harmless buff, or an effect that doesn't make sense for SR to react to.Fixed.
But spells like Flurry of Snowballs doesn't follow your rule, why?
I'm honestly not sure why either. Quality varies with the obscure soft cover books. In that same book, they have the Snowball spell, which is a conjuration (creation) effect (and not a very well designed spell either). Yet, this spell creates multiple snowballs and is an evocation effect. I'm guessing they tried to make this evocation because it primarily deals damage but had it not apply SR because, flavorwise, it works like a conjuration (creation) effect.
(HD spell limitations exist for an entirely different reason than you think they do).Please, explain me why, don't just say.
Please, don't assume what others think, you would be right, but wouldn't too.
Crippling the action economy of multiple enemies is a useful effect at all levels of play. As a result, HD limits exist to force spellcasters to use the highest level spell level they have to use such effects against enemies of their level. Low level disables are also fairly powerful to make up for a wizard's lack of power at low levels.
If you want the spell to grant a bonus on the save based on the target's HD, then it shouldn't be based on the caster's CL. It defeats the purpose of the HD limits and is redundant at best.
Even beside that, the spell is kind of boring.Depends in how you'll use it. You can, stop your stubborn allies to do something stupid with no harm to them; daze a creature you cannot defeat and use that time to escape; stop the guy with the alchemic fire from throwing it but you don't want him to drop it on your feet, etc.
It is a spell more suitable for a pacifier than a combat oriented...
I'm still not following why it's fun, because the wizard spell list is full of spells that do stuff like that. Crowd control is their bread and butter. And the other spells are way more interesting and fun, like web, grease, glitterdust, and such.
Spell schools and subschools are listed in the Magic chapter. They're important because they indicate special rules. If a spell says transmutation (polymorph), it tells you that polymorph rules apply.
What you show there is a wizard class option, not a subschool. Some of the focused arcane schools are inspired by subschools, but not all of them.
Point taken.
I didn't understand it at first sight.[...] spells like Flurry of Snowballs doesn't follow your rule, why?I'm honestly not sure why either. Quality varies with the obscure soft cover books. In that same book, they have the Snowball spell, which is a conjuration (creation) effect (and not a very well designed spell either). Yet, this spell creates multiple snowballs and is an evocation effect. I'm guessing they tried to make this evocation because it primarily deals damage but had it not apply SR because, flavorwise, it works like a conjuration (creation) effect.
Hmmmm, it makes me think it was either an error fixing the spell school or a copy-paste mistake.
In fact, i know about that spell, cause someone suggested me to use it with Dazing Spell and Merciful Spell feats to be able to easily daze creatures with SR.Or we can use a conjuration spell with Dazing Spell instead.
Crippling the action economy of multiple enemies is a useful effect at all levels of play. As a result, HD limits exist to force spellcasters to use the highest level spell level they have to use such effects against enemies of their level. Low level disables are also fairly powerful to make up for a wizard's lack of power at low levels.
If you want the spell to grant a bonus on the save based on the target's HD, then it shouldn't be based on the caster's CL. It defeats the purpose of the HD limits and is redundant at best.
Well, i think i can fix it and make a family of spells if needed. But that totally breaks the reason of making the spell. I'll elaborate later. I wanted to keep it simple. Spell effects scale with the CL, so only creatures with more HD than the caster have a bonus, just one spell.
I'm still not following why it's fun, because the wizard spell list is full of spells that do stuff like that. Crowd control is their bread and butter. And the other spells are way more interesting and fun, like web, grease, glitterdust, and such.
The spell just want to accomplish a task, allow a mediator/pacifier to stop people with no other unnecessary effects. The pacifier don't want to go to extremes to solve a situation. He'll use extreme force only if needed.
Glitterdust cause blindness, too extreme.Color Spray is aggresive with low HD creatures and harmless with high level HD ones. Not even.
Web and grease, despite being harmless, are too aggressive, not really "pacifist" spells.
1. He don't want to stop creatures with different HD and allow the creatures with high HD to wipe the creatures with low HD. This is contrary to his intentions.
As a mediator/pacifier he wants for it to be even for everyone.
For this the spell trades the devasting effects in low HD characters for an extended effect.
2. No additional effects. He want for the creatures to stop, listen, change their minds. It is not going to be an easy task to mediate with an orc he made slip and fall or help the druid to communicate a wolf pack if the pack became aggressive due to be trapped in a cobweb.
4. Harmless. totally harmless, no non-lethal damage, no penalties. Harmless.
3. He wants the spell to be discrete almost invisible. Glitterdust and Color Spray are in the other side.
To explain where i came off with the mechanics of this spell...
Like the Thunder Stunner of the Machinesmith, that uses thunderstones as amunition, with the deafness effect removed and the stun changed to daze. Re-flavored as a spell. This is also why it had SR no and no HD restrictions.
The pacifier can just use ThunderStones... at some point 30 gp are cheaper enough... But still too aggresive.
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Dazing Blast
School evocation [sonic]; Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration 1d3 rounds
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; Spell Resistance yes
Description
A cone of invisible energy springs forth from your hands, causing intense disorientation. Roll 2d4 and add your caster level (maximum 15) to determine the total number of HD of creatures affected. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first. Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell's point of origin are affected first. HD that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted.
The effect can penetrate through barriers, but creatures behind them receive +2 bonus on their saving throw to resist it and the duration of effect is reduced to 1 round.
There you go.
Adam
Hum... I like that other version of the spell... is it weaker, but prevents its abuse at higher levels.
I think it should be Will negates, but otherwise, Malag's version looks good.
I like Malag's version... the more i look at it i see nothing to change.
I like it being Fortitude save cause it is your body what's disoriented, not your mind, hence you remain lucid, but cannot act. But i also like the Will save version, you are disoriented enough for your body to obey you and you just can stay there, like watching a movie.
I remember to have seen spells where the caster can choose what save is. Sadly i don't remember if i saw them in the core or not. But for sure, there are spells with two or more different versions, like dancing lights, so why not? If that's possible, i'll add that caster decides if the effect is against the mind (Will save, mind-affecting) or the body (Fortitude save, sonic), once the choice is made it cannot be changed and it is the same for all the creatures affected.
Dazing Blast
School evocation [sonic]; Level bard 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 15 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst
Duration 1d3 rounds
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; Spell Resistance yes
Description
A cone of invisible energy springs forth from your hands, causing intense disorientation. Roll 2d4 and add your caster level (maximum 15) to determine the total number of HD of creatures affected. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first. Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell's point of origin are affected first. HD that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted.
The effect can penetrate through barriers, but creatures behind them receive +2 bonus on their saving throw to resist it and the duration of effect is reduced to 1 round.There you go.
Adam
Can i publish your spell in a website and share it under the OGL?
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Technically, anything written on the forums becomes property of Paizo. This is why I always use Google Docs.
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@cablop
Sure :)
Note about Fortitude Save: Most of the sonic effects use Fortitude Save. You might feel that this effect affects mind in mental way, but it doesn't necessarily. It simply forces you to temporarily lose motoric functions of your body. At least that's how I imagine it.
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Additionally, an AoE action-denial spell that targets Will is much more potentially devastating than one that targets Fort.
You're going to tend to be facing a horde of mooks with better Fort than Will. A group of caster-types with good Will saves is much less likely. So making a "destroy the goblin army" spell is something to avoid. Looking at the usage model is helpful here, and I think Malag has arrived at the better choice even if for a different/additional reason.