Reach Spell + touch range buffs = ?


Rules Questions


So, the reach spell metamagic feat can turn a spell with range "touch" into a ray spell. It's obvious how this works with offensive touch attacks, but how about buffs or healing spells? Do those require an attack roll? And how does it work if my ally who should receive the spell has concealment or cover? Does the miss-chance apply?

Personally, I don't think an attack roll is required because the feat description says

APG p.168 wrote:
Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.

and buffs/healing spells usually don't require melee thouch attacks.

But I'm still unsure about stuff like concealment.


As a GM, I would rule that it's situational...outside of combat, no, you wouldn't need to make a ranged touch to hit a willing target. During combat, however, you would need to make an attack roll...and I would be really cautious about firing a buff ray into a melee...hitting the wrong target could be disastrous (Precise Shot is almost a must if you're going to try something like that).

That's just my take on it...take it for what you decide it's worth.


Sieglord wrote:

As a GM, I would rule that it's situational...outside of combat, no, you wouldn't need to make a ranged touch to hit a willing target. During combat, however, you would need to make an attack roll...and I would be really cautious about firing a buff ray into a melee...hitting the wrong target could be disastrous (Precise Shot is almost a must if you're going to try something like that).

That's just my take on it...take it for what you decide it's worth.

You cannot accidentally hit other people with ranged attacks, magic or no.


Yeah, I forgot that we had to house rule that one because it didn't make any sense that you could fire an arrow (or a ray) into a swirling melee and not stand any chance whatsoever of hitting the wrong target.

Never mind...carry on.


Sieglord wrote:

Yeah, I forgot that we had to house rule that one because it didn't make any sense that you could fire an arrow (or a ray) into a swirling melee and not stand any chance whatsoever of hitting the wrong target.

Never mind...carry on.

Actually the rules take that into account with the penalties to hit -- you are trying so hard to not do so that you are less likely to hit anything -- otherwise you would simply roll to hit and then determine what you hit.

Liberty's Edge

Sieglord wrote:

Yeah, I forgot that we had to house rule that one because it didn't make any sense that you could fire an arrow (or a ray) into a swirling melee and not stand any chance whatsoever of hitting the wrong target.

Never mind...carry on.

I only rule that there is a chance to hit an unintended target on a fumble (roll of a natural 1 and back it up with another roll of 10 or lower, I call these critical fumbles). It's a house rule for sure, but one that I think adds flavor and a bit of battlefield chaos that is inherent in combat.


Blave wrote:


But I'm still unsure about stuff like concealment.

Unless the target has control over the concealment you should apply miss chance normally. When you fire benficial ray into your blurred friend you still have problems with seeing him correctly and thus directing beam. The same applies to miss chance from blink.


A house rule we've used when firing a beneficial ray at an ally is that the ally doesn't factor in any dex or dodge bonuses to his touch AC in such a case, assuming the ally is aware of the ray being beneficial. (Basically the player can choose to try to avoid it, and thus retain their full touch AC against it, or 'allow' it to hit them, and thus not add dex and dodge bonuses to AC.) This is to account for the target willingly accepting the ray, but still accounts for the difficulty of hitting the target with the ray in the first place (since the base 10 plus size, deflection, and other AC modifiers would still apply.)

But its strictly a house rule.


Father Dale wrote:

A house rule we've used when firing a beneficial ray at an ally is that the ally doesn't factor in any dex or dodge bonuses to his touch AC in such a case, assuming the ally is aware of the ray being beneficial. (Basically the player can choose to try to avoid it, and thus retain their full touch AC against it, or 'allow' it to hit them, and thus not add dex and dodge bonuses to AC.) This is to account for the target willingly accepting the ray, but still accounts for the difficulty of hitting the target with the ray in the first place (since the base 10 plus size, deflection, and other AC modifiers would still apply.)

But its strictly a house rule.

But does fit in line with the voluntary reduction of SR rules does this lowered touch only apply to the beneficial ray or last for the full round like lowering SR does?


I think if I were going to require a roll, I'd have the target have the option of being considered helpless against the ray since he wouldnt be doing ANYTHING to avoid it. Helpess would make their dex 0 and thus only need to hit an AC 5 before you deal with things like rings of protection which, AFIAK, you cant turn on and off.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks."

Pay very close attention to the text. It has a qualifier.

If the spell didn't require a melee touch attack before, it doesn't require a ranged touch attack after Reach Spell is applied. Therefore, nearly all beneficial buff spells with a range of touch do NOT require an attack roll against an ally (even a blurred ally).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Reach Spell + touch range buffs = ? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions