Emerald Spire

[TheFlyingPhoton]

I'm running Emerald Spire all the way through for a group using PFS mode. We're only a few levels in so far, and I had a few questions.

Things are in spoiler tags for anti-wall of text and to break things up by topic.

Land Rush:

Players spend 2 Prestige for each hex? Am I reading that wrong?
When I first saw this, I thought it was a way to mitigate the fact that playing only modules would put you behind in terms of expected Fame/Prestige given the B hexes, but it looks like it just makes it worse. Participating in the Land Rush just causes you to earn half the Prestige you normally would (less than that, considering how much of it must be played for half credit).
Hex E means you purchase the Country Estate on layaway instead of all at once. So it will be the only Vanity any of the characters purchase since they're so low on Prestige because of the Land Rush.
The reward for the D hexes negates the cost of purchasing the hexes and nothing else. So those hexes essentially do nothing. At least they're not as bad as A.
Hex A: Pay 2 Prestige for literally nothing.

Has anyone done a full run-through of Emerald Spire? Did any players participate in this or did they all opt out?

Spire Transport Tokens:

Do these do anything in PFS? The best I can figure is that they're a way for the PCs to run to town to get Raise Deads, Remove Blindnesses, etc, in the middle of a scenario without having to call it quits and fail the level. If that's the case, why would they need to buy more than one (they have the opportunity to buy multiple)? Or rather, is there a reason to purchase more than one among the entire party? Are they one use? Does that one use include teleporting back?

Bestiary:

For the Caustic Stalker's Breath Weapon, do characters need to save against poison if they make the Reflex save? What if they evade the acid damage? What if they resist the acid damage?

Is the Lava Lurker's magma ball touch or a regular ranged attack?

So the Shadowfire's Incorporeal Step ability is basically a special Mobility?
Does the Shadowfire creature stay incorporeal while it is attacking during a Spring Attack? Would that have an affect on its melee attack's to hit/damage/etc?

Level 1: The Tower Ruins:

Clanky's Arm is the best reward I've ever seen on a chronicle.

Level 4: Godhome:

This is the latest level I've run so far, and it was kind of a disaster. My normally pro-roleplay group was completely disinterested in talking with Troglodytes or seeing what was going on in this underground and very unusual society. They were actually quite frustrated that nothing else seemed to be going on. As soon as the door opened, they were confused as to why that was it.

Also, the chronicle on this one is weird. It's kind of punishing players for being clever/diplomatic/not murderhobos. My players were originally going to skip shutting down the Godbox and continue to the next floor after the Stonelord lost his Dwarven dorn-dergar in the magnetic field's disarm, but the player was not willing to lose out on 350 gold to buy a new one. Then they couldn't figure out how to shut it down. They were extremely frustrated and impatient by this point, and were in no state to listen long enough for me to try to come up with a way to explain the solution without just giving it to them. Eventually, I got frustrated with them and just blurted out the solution.

How did this level go for you when you GMed it?
How did you explain the "puzzle" to shut down the Godbox?

Level 5: The Drowned Level:

Any drownings happen here?

Level 9: The Spire Axis:

Is the Barbed Devil a bit much for this point? I don't have a thorough understanding of CR, but CR 11 seems like a jump. The worst they've seen until now is CR 8 in the previous level, and they don't see another CR 11 creature until Level 12. The only way to bypass her is to make a deal/ally with her, which isn't going to happen for most parties. Does having Jhero in the party help? How do I make sure they meet him before her?

Level 10: The Magma Vault:

Do you allow the Inevitable to participate with the PCs in the combats with the Lava Lurker or dragons? The Inevitable seems like it could solo-stomp the rest of them, so would overpower things in the players' favor (whereas Jhero's participation seems necessary for the Mistress of Thorns).

No one will have enough Prestige to utilize the Book of the Damned because of the Land Rush. See: My Land Rush comments.

Level 11: The Tomb of Yarrix:

In regards to the Looping Passage Trap: How far away does a character need to be to disappear from view of the other players? Is it likely that more than one player will fall for it?
How long would you say time passes for the rest of the party during the eight hours a trapped player spends inside the trap?

The chronicle says, "You can use this boon when casting a non-instantaneous spell that affects an area to apply the Lingering Spell metamagic feat..."
Shouldn't that be an instantaneous spell?

Level 12: The Automaton Forge:

Does anyone know how the Emerald Guardian gets its stats? It says Advanced Emerald Automaton, and the Advanced and Giant Templates would account for the Str difference and Natural Armor difference, but nothing else matches.

Level 13: The Pleasure Gardens:

Re: Tophet's tactics - change "take to Nhur Athemon" to "take to Murthok Huul" or ignore? It seems weird shutting one of the players out of a full level and making them the damsel in distress in a PFS game (would be fine with it in home game).

Where is the grate for the Gibbering Mouther? Where does the Gibbering Mouther come out at? I was thinking that it might go from under the stage to where the seats are. If it can't get all the way out due to PC placement, would you say it's squeezing, being partially below the stage?
I'm having the same problem understanding the Huge Gibbering Mouther's stats as I was earlier with the Emerald Guardians.
I didn't bother with the Variant Yellow Creeper.

"...the hellwasp swarm's Disguise check," lolwut

Level 14: The Throne of Azlant:

To start this floor, someone needs to have purchased that ioun stone from a previous level or have a really good Disable Device?

Heart of Nhur Athemon: Players who fall to the curse are required to buy the Remove Curse + Restoration at the end of the scenario? If you purchase spell casting for this, do you need to roll the caster level check to succeed? If you need to roll the check, can you purchase the spell casting at a higher caster level than minimum (which is required to beat DC 30)? If spell casting needs to be purchased, do I worry about the lich resurrecting?

For the Time Lock, do players take the penalties/benefits of aging (or slap on the young template) if their age is pushed far enough?
PFS normally ignores aging effects, but would they apply in this case, since they are being magically aged by a hazard in the mod? Or does it do nothing unless they age beyond the maximum age limit (in which case they die permanently) or they hit age 0 (in which case they...?)?
Maximum age is randomly rolled normally; what is maximum age in PFS? Do I actually roll for the player? Take average of the dice used for their race? Allow them the max rolling dice would give for their race?
Is there a way to undo magically-induced aging?

Does taking the Boon of Abraxas automatically incur an alignment shift/require an atonement?
What does Wish for Recovery do? It looks like it would be used to wipe out any negative boons accrued thus far, but there aren't any negative boons.

Level 15: Order and Chaos:

Won't getting spammed by Hold Persons/Monsters the second they walk in the door send the players into attack mode against the Zelekhuts? How do you even get to the point of conversation after that?

[Woran]

Ok, lets see:

Land Rush:
This is no required. Its a funny option. My players did buy some land, mostly to get the vanities. Prestige counts less as you progress in level as the things you want you'll buy in gold.

Spire Tokens:
From page 20
To use Spire transport, a character must do the following:
• Wear or carry a special transport token.
• Know the identifying rune or mark for the level he or she
wishes to transport to.
• Use a free action to speak the name of the rune.
• Bring no more than one other creature along (this is the
only way a nonsentient or unconscious character can use
Spire transport).

Yes, its an easy way to go back up to get items/magic/stuff. But you need at least two (for a party of four). 3 for a party of six. More if there are pets.
Also, on the way down, you randomly appear next to the spire. If the spire is next to more then one room, roll random for each player.
For example: Three rooms are next to the spire. Roll a D3 to see in which room the players end up on. Do this for every token that is used.
Hiliarity ensues.

Bestiary:
Magma lurker is called out as ranged in the stat block, under offense, so it should be ranged.

Caustic stalker, if they get the acid damage, resisted or not, they need to make the poison save. If they completely avoid getting touched by it, they dont, as they never got into contact with it.

Shadowfire elemental: aw, they have spring attack? I totally missed this when I ran it! Bummer, that would have provided a serious threat.
Anyway, I think if they spring attack, they would remain incoporeal. But it would not affect their ability to hit (it does not change for other incoporeal creatures or effects, so I dont see why it would be different here)

Godhome:
My players were a bit weirded out by the troggs, but they roleplayed magnificently with them.
The meat weirded them out, but they took their time taking the tour and I really put in details about how the Troggs got here and their weird history.
The godbox puzzled them. They did see the slots in the side of the godbox, and they spend a lot of time talking to the troggs, trying to find out what would fit in there.
I only had to give them one hint in the end about the solution. (what is REALLY out of place here?) When they slotted in the doors, they spun a wild tale of the godbox needing a rest, and that this should be a day of fasting. The Troggs were really anxious, but Diplomacy rolls of 30+ several times calmed them down after every door.
They got full XP for this level.

The drowned level:
No drowning. No combat. They convinced JorQual they were friendly and here to help.

Spire Axis:
Devil met smiting palladin. She was dead real quick.

Magma Vault:
The enevitable did not participate. I let it explain to the players that after it got stuck for so long, it would need to meditate to recover.

Tomb of Yarrix:
I let players dissapear the moment they stepped into the first trapped square. This caused the ones staying behind to emediately come and look. Eventually everyone was trapped.

We have not completed the other levels yet.

[Belafon]

Here we go:

Land Rush:

It's really a vanity thing. It's a cool thing but it's not meant to be a big mechanical advantage.

The B hexes do give you a fame as well as a prestige so that will raise your maximum purchase limit. The number of hexes total taken affect one of the rewards. Also, I stressed to my players that some of the chronicles interact with the land rush (with no details so as not to color their actions on level 9).

Spire Transport Tokens:

Read the description in the module. Each only takes two people and you have to wait an hour between uses. They also drop you off on a random side of the Spire. Good for emergency escape. If you are running for the same people, you can use them as a "what path are you taking?" kind of thing. But yeah, they are most interesting in play outside PFS.

Bestiary:

Can't find the reference right now, but if you take no damage from an attack like that you don't get the secondary effect. You do have to save if you take any damage (even if it's only half due to a reflex save).

The magma ball is regular since it isn't listed as touch.

The Shadowfire Elementals have Mobility AND if they move they gain incorporeality for one round. That means any attacks for one round do no damage unless the weapon is magical. Half damage from magic weapons. Full damage from ghost touch weapons.

Level 1:

Except possibly for the Trusty Buddy

Level 4:

I've run it 3 times. Two groups only got 1 XP and Fame. I've had Fort Inevitable personalities and even Venture Captains stop by to tell them that they want more information. It's just that two of the groups didn't want to murderhobo or pull the doors off the trogs home so they decided to be done knowing that there was more that could be done. The third group went back to town and prepared to go full-on stealth. Thanks to a sap and some silence spells they made it through without killing.

I gave all the parties an Intelligence check if they were studying the godbox and struggling with how to disable it. (DC 10). When they made it I said "there are six sides and six slots on the box. You're trying to think of what else you've seen six of..." They all immediately twigged to the doors.

John Compton stated that reward format was an experiment. I think Campaign Leadership has realized that was not a good choice for people planning to play their character the whole way through.

Level 5:

No, but the mudlord fight can be very nasty. It's quite possible that no players will have a magic weapon at that point (in PFS, in module play they probably would have kept the ones they found above). The dirty water reduces vision and makes spellcasting difficult at best. I ran this in a convention slot, that group finished only 3 encounters and was fighting the mudlord when we had to end for time. I think they would have had some smothering deaths if time wasn't called. My campaign group took about 7 hours all told to finish the level.

Level 9:

Its not bad. At that point most groups would be able to handle her in a fight. You do want the players to make a deal to get the cool boon so I had her calmly say "Oh, hello" in a very non-threatening way when they entered the room. (They didn't get the boon but they also didn't have to fight.) I honestly have no idea what to do with the Nephilim. There isn't enough development in that area to figure out what his role is. Make it up!

Level 10:

His goal is to get back to his friends on level 15. After a brief conversation with the PCs he heads for the Spire. He encounters the elemental and fights it solely to get to the Spire. As soon as he has an opportunity to get there he takes it. Bear in mind that unless the PCs heal him he has very low hit points and may die in an AoE.

Level 11:

As soon as they enter a square they are transported to a pocket dimension. They stay there for 8 hours (real and perceived time) unless they make the checks. They reappear in the square they were attempting to enter, so if they keep moving forward they may experience it multiple times.

Yes, the first one should say "instantaneous"

Level 12:

Advancing constructs is more of an art than a science. The rules are a bit fluid and the writer has some leeway.

Level 13:

Take to the end of level boss. I think you will find that most groups won't let that happen. Both the Mouther and the Creeper are irregular monsters. Just like the Emerald Guardians the level designer made up things.

I would have it come out from under the stairs. It is amorphous so the squeezing isn't too much of a problem.

The hell wasp swarm is pretending to be a dead body.

Level 14:

Yes, they need the stone (or a good disable). Bear in mind that they are free to go back to town and buy one, there aren't any time limits.

Time Lock: Per PFS rules the ONLY thing that age does is kill you if you age past max age for your race. This is no exception. I have no idea what happens if you age below 0. I would just say if you are about to go into young age choose to age the character older instead. Let the player roll their max age and record it on their sheet. The only way I can think of to undo aging is a wish. And the only way I can think of to do that is to buy a Luck Blade.

Boon of Abraxas: It doesn't automatically require an atonement for most characters but divine classes (clerics, inquisitors, and definitely Paladins) might need one (give them the tingly "Your God doesn't like this" warning first). If a player has been using the Book of the Damned, that's a negative boon. I might actually allow an aged character to use the boon to get back to "normal" age.

Phylactery: this is problematic. The players will most likely need to do some research to determine how to extract the heart. Which can cause time problems. I kind of read this as the Heart is rebuilding Nhur-Athemon out of the player. Honestly I think it will come down to your group and how much time you have as to how you want to handle this.

They do need to beat the curse DC. You can buy at "higher than base" caster level, but it would most likely require a trip to Absalom to find one who can automatically succeed.

Level 15:

"Hold for identification and questioning. Your choice of path must be determined." Then cast.

Note that most likely the players will end up in conflict with the inevitables (as the players want to get down to level 16).

[DrParty06]

Kevin Willis wrote:

Level 10: Bear in mind that unless the PCs heal him he has very low hit points and may die in an AoE.

He's got regeneration that should get him most of the way healed.

Level 15: If you do the Hold Person/Monsters in a surprise round (which it pretty much is), then either you hit some PCs and can have the Inevitables start yelling at them what are you doing here, this is lawful territory, blah, blah, blah, or they all pass and the Inevitables say please hold you seem powerful how did you get here, etc. Basically, you can easily nudge the PCs into thinking they would have reacted the same way had someone they didn't know was friendly but was suddenly appeared on their doorstep. Also if they save the Kolyarut from 10, he's there and can vouch for them/provide someone for them to recognize.

[andreww]

For level 14

Spoiler:

You don't have to use disable device or the stones, there is nothing stopping you breaking through or bypassing them in other ways. When we played it I stone shaped a hole to get us through but you could just as easily dimension door past them.

[Belafon]

Sigh. I was typing on a phone and Woran beat me to most of the good points.

Woran wrote:

Magma lurker is called out as ranged in the stat block, under offense, so it should be ranged.

The question was if it should be ranged touch or just ranged. Since it doesn't specify ranged touch, it is ranged.

Quote:

Caustic stalker, if they get the acid damage, resisted or not, they need to make the poison save. If they completely avoid getting touched by it, they dont, as they never got into contact with it.

I had the time to hunt a bit and I couldn't find support for my earlier statement. The closest I found was the description of damage reduction, which says

PRD wrote:

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury poison, a monk's stunning, and injury-based disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

I believe what Woran said is correct. No save if they evade, save if they resist it.

[Belafon]

More on level 14:

My group will be hitting this soon and I'm doing a lot of thinking on how to handle the phylactery. There's a very greedy character (with a low will save) who I'm pretty sure will end up with a channel resistance bonus. The paladin is not going to want to do what Abraxas asks her to, just on general principles. So they're going to have to figure out the alternative means of destruction. Which is pretty much going to require a legend lore.

Assuming they don't toss the heart to Abraxas, my plan is probably to have the character start to get ill and feel like his insides are being eaten away as days pass. The party cleric will have heal and restoration available for casting if needed so I'll allow those to delay the transformation. That will give them time to travel back and find a wizard to cast legend lore. They'll have to get the heart removed using the conditions specified.

Then they just have to find someone to cast the destruction spell since none of them have it on their spell list. Unfortunately that's when things get difficult. It's 7th level so they can't purchase it from spellcasting services (per PFS rules). And they aren't quite 13th level so they can't buy a scroll of it. They can either decide to take the heart back to the Astral Chasm or leave it undestroyed. If they leave it undestroyed that counts as "refusing the wish" in my book.

If they don't destroy it I can make it a menacing presence overshadowing them for at least one more level. No mechanical impact, but I'm certainly not going to tell them that. (Since I'm GMing the same group I'll give them a chance to buy a scroll when one of the characters hits level 13.)

Anyway, I'm personally budgeting a ton of time for roleplaying in this scenario. Even after the end of combat. This is definitely not a 5-hour level.

[andreww]

Spoiler:

Given the nature of the Heart and what happens over the few day following the defeat of Nhur Athemon I would be inclined to treat it as a condition which has to be resolved or the character is reported as dead.

When we played our Rogue grabbed it and inevitably failed the save. We managed to remove it with a remove curse eventually and he inevitably died. The scenario is extremely annoying as it does not give any obvious way to learn of the implications of removing it or how you can save someone when you do. Also as restoration has a 3 round cast time it isn't actually possible to save someone with it as you only have a round.

[Belafon]

andreww wrote:

Spoiler:

Given the nature of the Heart and what happens over the few day following the defeat of Nhur Athemon I would be inclined to treat it as a condition which has to be resolved or the character is reported as dead.

When we played our Rogue grabbed it and inevitably failed the save. We managed to remove it with a remove curse eventually and he inevitably died. The scenario is extremely annoying as it does not give any obvious way to learn of the implications of removing it or how you can save someone when you do. Also as restoration has a 3 round cast time it isn't actually possible to save someone with it as you only have a round.

I absolutely agree with you on the first part. While in a home game it could make for a very interesting "character problem" it does need to be resolved before handing out chronicles in PFS.

However the second part isn't as dire as you think.

Spoiler:

The spells don't have to come from the same caster. So whoever is casting restoration starts casting first. And restoration is a touch spell so if the remove curse fails the CL check, the restoration caster just holds the charge (doesn't touch) while another remove curse is cast. I would definitely say if the party made its way to a temple of a deity specializing in healing (Irori would be a particularly flavorful choice) the clerics would agree to prepare to take on this difficult challenge the next day (preparing the spells several times over).

edit: And I just remembered - Level 13 has a fountain that provides greater restoration once per day per PC. If the party can cast remove curse they can just position the afflicted person right at the fountain and start casting.

As far as figuring out what to do... Abraxas can tell the party they need to get the heart out (though he'll probably just say "cut it out") and then as I mention above a cast of legend lore should fill in the rest of the info.