Terraform gives "automatic success" "When a character attempts to close". I understand from a previous post by Hawk that it means to just act as if there was no "When closing" paragraph.
However the way it is worded, I could see one argue that it ensures that whatever happens during the attempt (even if the character is disintegrated :-)), the result will be closing the location, but that the attempt must still happen with its own other consequences.
E. g. depending on the closing requirement:
- summon and encouter : you may still take damage and stuff
- summon and acquire : you may still win a boon
- succeed at a check : you may still have the opportunity to play cards affecting that check (maybe you want to discard or recharge some)
and so on...
Not so sure the card needs to have an errata but maybe a little FAQ or at least confirmation to avoid confusion.
None of that stuff happens, you just close the location. No cards are summoned or acquired and no checks are rolled (not counting Terraform's recharge check).
When you have the opportunity and want to close a location, do whatever the location's When Closing section says. Locations often require specific checks to close them; otherwise, they list specific tasks you must perform. (If a location says you may close it automatically, you don't need to do anything else.)
I view Terraform as falling within the last sentence of that quote. Even though the location itself doesn't say it is automatically closed, Terraform does and we have a rule that says you don't do anything special when automatically closing a location.
Thanks skizzerz. As I said there is no doubt in our mind on how to handle it. I was just wondering if it's in plain clear English. This said, who am I to ask not being a native speaker.
To note, I'm on rather shaky rules ground here; it could be design intent is for those side effects to happen. It seems unlikely (to me), but the possibility is open. After all there is a subtle wording difference between "automatically closes" and "automatically succeed at attempts to close" that makes the rule I quoted close to what Terraform says but not an actual match.
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skizzerz, I don't think they'd create a card like Terraform that triggered side effects.
I've read it as "bypass any checks needed to close a location and automatically succeed." Otherwise all the card does is succeed at benign checks like Wisdom or Survival 8 plus the Adventure Deck number. But if it was Take 4 Combat Damage, you'd still take the damage? Doesn't make sense.
It's a set 4 card. It's meant to be powerful. Consider that when you are doing a permanent close, you need to expend a mythic charge to do so. It's a 15 recharge check. Also, if it was meant to trigger stuff, I don't think it would say automatic and it would say the bad things.
...Otherwise all the card does is succeed at benign checks like Wisdom or Survival 8 plus the Adventure Deck number.
Hum not really. I think even if it wasn't skipping side effects it would be powerful. Some examples :
- Need to bury an armor for closing : don't bury one and close anyway!
- On the opposite need to acquire an armor for closing : well you can try "for free" since you will close anyway
- Need to summon and defeat a triple-50-check monster : OK you lose all your hand but close anyway
And so on...
Even if you still had to do the "when closing" it would be a very powerful spell.
skizzerz, I don't think they'd create a card like Terraform that triggered side effects.
I've read it as "bypass any checks needed to close a location and automatically succeed." Otherwise all the card does is succeed at benign checks like Wisdom or Survival 8 plus the Adventure Deck number. But if it was Take 4 Combat Damage, you'd still take the damage? Doesn't make sense.
It's a set 4 card. It's meant to be powerful. Consider that when you are doing a permanent close, you need to expend a mythic charge to do so. It's a 15 recharge check. Also, if it was meant to trigger stuff, I don't think it would say automatic and it would say the bad things.
I agree with you in that it's unlikely to trigger side effects. I disagree with you that it wouldn't work on a location that has you take 4 Combat damage to close; I'd think it would apply there as well and let you bypass taking Combat damage to just automatically close it. Remember you're automatically succeeding at your attempt to close itself, not automatically succeeding at any checks while attempting to close. As such, it isn't limited to just bypassing checks, but also things like banishing cards and taking damage. The blog post introducing the card says "When they need it, this card just makes them automatically succeed... without the checks or costs or having to defeat demons with combat 40 checks." which lends credence to it applying to more than just checks.
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I still read it as it is an automatic close without attempting the check.
But I can see where the discrepancy exists. The "clearer" wording would be "When a character attempts to temporarily close a location, you may instead discard this card; that character automatically succeeds." (Same for the other powers.)
The way it reads, it doesn't say you (the character) automatically succeeds without trying the attempt. But it also doesn't say that you (the character) has to make the attempt either. It simply says "when" they would attempt.
skizzerz, I'm saying that it works anywhere. I'm also saying that it avoids the negative and positive effects from the Attempt to Close.
Ah, gotcha, I misread your post then. I think we're in agreement here, as I also am saying that (just with slight caveat that it could work the other way if Mike or Vic popped in and said so) :)