I have a question and wanted to get the communities opinion on the challenge rating for a serpentfolk as written except for removing their spell like abilities and granting them the ability to cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer. The serpentfolk would not gain any bloodline spells or powers unless it took levels in the Sorcerer class similar to Dragons spellcasting ability.
One point to add is I have modified both spontaneous and preparation spellcasters. Sorcerers progress the same as Wizards, so they gain 2nd level spells at caster level 3 and so on.
So with that in mind does adding 3 caster levels in place of the serpentfolk's spell like abilities throw off its CR and need to be adjusted or is it ok??
here is a link for the Serpentfolk if anyone wants quick access to its stat block.
i would really like to get a few opinions if changing out the serpentfolk's spell like abilities out for sorcerer caster levels is going to change its CR. Any help would be appreciated.
It depends on the spells the creature gets.
For the record, what CL will it maintain as a sorcerer?
What Spells will it know? Will it have bloodline abilities?
Caster level 3. But it will have 2nd level spells. My homebrew sorcerers casting progression is the same as a wizard. It will have 2 1st level spells (disguise self & color spray) and 1 2nd level spell (mirror image).
Seems fine, probably not much of an increase in power, if any.
Seems fine, probably not much of an increase in power, if any.
ok, that was what I was thinking. but I wanted at least a second opinion as I have been known to overpower my monsters when I adjust them like this. thank you for your thoughts.
Alteration Breakdown:
What they lose: Disguise Self at will, Ventriloquism at will, Suggestion (3rd level spell), 1 caster level
What they gain: 5 Cantrips, the use of any 1st and 2nd level Sorcerer Spells the DM deems appropriate
I'd say be very careful. While losing Disguise Self at will is a hefty loss, what they're gaining is potentially CR-breaking. Give them Shield and Arcane Armor as 1st level spells, and they're already nearly untouchable. And if you only had straight-forward combat encounters planned, losing Disguise Self at will isn't really that devastating anyway. Based on what spells they get and the nature of the encounters planned, consider raising their CR to 5.
my intent is to use them as bbeg's, who in a previous age were practically immortal. but due to story reasons some of them were placed in temporal stasis and others chose to enter a similar state to survive a time of great destruction and upheaval on the material plane. think of it like part rise of the runelords and part mud sorcerer's (from the adventure mud sorcerer's tomb in dragon magazine #138).
I don't intend to optimize the average serpentfolk. most of their spells will follow a theme. and only the serpentfolk who have class levels of sorcerer will optimize as they get higher in level.
I have changed the spells known on the "average" serpentfolk from what I listed the other day. I replaced color spray with charm person. it still has disguise self and its 2nd level spell is still mirror image. its feats are improved initiative, weapon finesse, and spell focus (enchantment). it is meant to function as an infiltrator type bag guy and be a mini boss for a party of 4 3rd or 4th level heros. he will be fought alone.
Sounds fine, then, but I have to ask: why change the average Serpentfolk? It seems like you're leaving them with pretty much the same niche as the Bestiary entry with their Spells Known vs. Spell-like Abilities. Why not just swap out their existing SLA's for the ones you listed (you'd really only need to add Charm person)? This change would still be thematically appropriate for the more advanced versions, I just don't see the point in changing the "average" versions as well.
Also, just my thoughts on your mini boss encounter: a single CR 4 creature vs. a full party of level 3-4 heroes will likely be floored after 1 or 2 rounds. I'd consider giving him 2 Constrictor Snakes (CR 2) as an add-on.
the change was to bring their stats in line with my story lore. these serpentfolk are the few surviving members of one of the first great empires in the world. they were also one of the first material plane races to use magic at the time, and that magic was Sorcery. it is ingrained in the serpentfolk. they consider Wizardry a perversion. and during the height of their empire there was no deities exerting influence on the material plane so they knew nothing of worshipping deities. they believed they were the greatest creatures in existence.
I have considered adding a minion or two to the final encounter but I had been waiting to decide for sure until I nailed down the new CR. my players do not optimize much and they are martial heavy. this particular serpentfolk will be attempting to exert influence over a small town to take over the humans militia forces to wage war on a nearby elven community. early on the players will encounter a kobold tribe the serpentfolk took control of before it found the human town. the players will eventually find connections between the kobolds and someone in the militia. the players will encounter the serpentfolk disguised as a human using its magic. they will have opportunities to discover something is wrong with "Councilman Sanders".