How close are the editors to the creative process at Paizo?

[Genuine]

I'm curious about your creative process. My understanding is that in traditional publishing writers submit their manuscripts, editors return the manuscript with notes, writers adjust, and then a back and forth begins which hopefully results in finished, publishable material.

I get the vibe sometimes that Paizo's writers work very closely with the editors, and that the line between developers and editors can be very blurry.

I imagine that this helps with the creative process, as brainstorming, playtest, and multiple viewpoints are disproportionately necessary when developing rule-sets for games.

In my personal work I have noticed that content creators have a very difficult time editing their own work; this is especially true for technical material. I know what I'm saying, there clearly isn't any ambiguity. I've found that it often requires someone not intimately familiar with the thought processes of a particular creation to identify conceptual problems.

I can still find typos, grammatical mistakes, and spelling errors; but I am bad and recognizing when I'm just not making sense. I've yet to meet an author that was any better. The only ones I know who can even sort of manage are those who can afford to put away their manuscripts for long periods of time while working on something else - that way the material is fresh when they return, they aren't biased by their unspoken thoughts.

I suppose this sounds like assumptions married with criticism, especially with some of the more recent material feeling unusually full of unclear rules and ambiguities. But I've also noticed that scenarios and modules tend to be more clear (if more prone to outright errors). I wonder if the difference is that the scenarios and modules are often written by freelancers and people who don't work closely with editors.

I'm really just curious how Paizo handles their high level editing.

[Robert G. McCreary]

The line between editors and developers is both blurry and not blurry. :)
Writers don't have much contact with the editors at all; they all deal primarily with developers. At Paizo, a freelance writer turns in a manuscript to a developer, who then goes through a process that is somewhat editing, plus a lot of other stuff. This involves making sure the story flows, making sure there's enough XP and treasure in the adventure, making sure the rules are correct, a good mix of monsters, good encounter design, etc., etc. We try to make each adventure or product as awesome as it can be - that's development.

Afterward, a developed manuscript goes to the editors, who primarily look for typos and grammar mistakes, but also serve as a fresh eye to catch things that are not worded clearly, or a plot point that doesn't make sense, errors in stat blocks, or any of a million other things.

Regarding the developers' relationship with writers, we do communicate back and forth quite a lot. The realities of a publishing schedule mean we don't always have time to send a manuscript back to a writer for a revisions, but we are usually in close contact with writers during the writing process to answer questions and provide suggestions, advice, or clarify exactly what it is we want in a finished manuscript.

[Insain Dragoon]

Glad to hear you keep editors separate! That's a good idea because I know after a while of working on something it's hard to see whats written there over what you intend to be there.

A good and fresh set of eyes in the form of an editor is perfect for those moments.

[Mark Moreland]

We'd keep them more separate, but the building layout only allows us to put them so far away.

Spoiler:

And by this I mean, they like their quiet and developers can be loud, so it'd be in everyone's best interest for them to be separater.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

How close?

I'd guess between five and fifty feet, depending on which editor and which developer. :)

[Garrett Guillotte]

Ryan Macklin posted something about this back in 2013. It's likely evolved a little since then.

[Jessica Price]

Editing is part of the creative process, so they're very close.

[Terquem]

Quote:

I'm really just curious how Paizo handles their high level editing.

I believe some Hand Sanitizer is involved.

[Ryan Macklin]

Because of the building's layout, I'm the one editor who sits in the developer area. Consequently, devs will turn and ask me editorial questions because it's more convenient than standing up and walking maybe 12 feet. But I'm still as separate from the process as the rest of us editors.

(When the devs get loud, I tend to take my work into another room or put on headphones.)

Building on what Rob said, even when the writer is in-house, we don't typically talk with that writer first; we talk with the developer, and only then ask the writer for clarification if that's what the developer needs done. This is pretty much because the dev has seen the whole book and made changes based on that which the writer isn't necessarily aware of.

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Ryan Macklin posted something about this back in 2013. It's likely evolved a little since then.

Not overly. Different projects might cause the order or number of passes to change, but that flow works with the demands of our publication schedule

- Ryan