In order to tone down magic in an upcoming campaign, I've been toying with the idea of cutting down magic that deals damage based on a 1dx/caster level progression to a 1dx/spell level, and allow casters to cast spells at different levels in order to increase their damage.
I realize that this is a serious nerf to casters, but does anyone see any other balance issues, or any issues at all that would arise from this house rule?
This doesn't tone down magic, this tones down the weakest kind of magic for no discernible reason.
Your players will continue to do what any smart caster does: Lay down buffs and summon creatures, walls, and anything else they can think of.
You've basically taken damaging spells from "Kinda bad, but usable sometimes" to "Well, now I can save space on my spell list for even MORE powerful spells!".
Okay, thanks for the input, but I'm curious: what makes spells like Fireball so bad?
Three main things:
1.) Their damage is just not all that significant without major building around it, and even then what those spells achieve (in pure damage, not rider effects like the ludicrously broken Dazing Spell) is a bit less damage than your Martial character can achieve, but spread over a wider area.
2.) That damage can be halved, before resistances to make it even more lackluster.
3.) Opportunity cost. Stinking Cloud, Create Pit, Holy Word, these are spells that can trivialize or end encounters outright. Fireball does damage.
The "Whee dice!" factor makes the damage look a LOT more significant than it really is.
5d6 looks like a lot. It's an average of 17 damage (save for half).
A 5th level Barbarian can deal that, no save, in a single hit (or more, likely. With a chance to crit.).
10d6 likewise looks impressive. It's a whopping 35 damage.
Your 10th level barbarian can easily deal TWICE that.
The main benefit is killing mooks and swarms. Mind you those are the absolute best levels for comparison. At 6th level the Barbarian gets a second attack, and at 11th he gets a 3rd, increasing his damage output even more.
Even if you build around it, like dipping a level of Crossblooded Sorcerer (Orc/Draconic) and Intensifying and Empowering it, at 15th level you're doing a whopping 15d6+30, which is a respectable 82 damage (flat 120 if you Maximize it).
But at that point, you're basically maxed out on DAMAGE from Fireball, and you've MATCHED the barbarian at best (My 17th level Barbarian swings for 2d6+40 plus a swing, 4 times a round. Plus a bite for 1d4+22, so it's still not touching him)
Essentially, it's only worthwhile if you build around it...and then you've made yourself worse at the actual game changing spells.
Blasters are not in need of toning down. The most min/maxed blaster is not going to deal enough damage to upset your game unless your games consist mostly of a bunch of weak enemies charging the party.
That makes a lot of sense. Back to the drawing board.
Also, "Wheee dice" lol
Why exactly do you want to tone down magic?
Is it a setting reason, or a game balance reason? There can be different answers for which.
A little from column A, a little from column B. I've been lurking on the boards enough that there's a widening power gap between martials and magics as levels get higher, and this was one of the first thoughts that bubbled into my head as to a possible patch.
Additionally, I'm attempting to merge WFRP flavor with d20 mechanics, but that's a different thread entirely.
Might just run a P6 game and sort everything out that way
I think just banning fullcasters from your games works as a quick and easy solution.
6 level casters and full martials can co-exist reasonably well enough at any level.
hmm... not a bad idea, throwing in some 2e level caps
Wasn't suggesting level caps, just ban Wizard, Cleric, etc. and make the only casters Bard, Inquisitor, and so on.
Wasn't suggesting level caps, just ban Wizard, Cleric, etc. and make the only casters Bard, Inquisitor, and so on.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Dazzlerdal, thanks for the pointers!
There are all sorts of story-based solutions to magical supremacy.
- What if any player wanting to use learning-based magic (wizards, clerics, druids, alchemists & the like) had to first start out as a non-magic-using class, then find a "master" or other source of magic in-game, then study with them for a set period of game time before being able to take a level in a magic-using class?
- What if any player wanting to utilize intuitive magic (sorcerors and spontaneous casters in general) had to survive some serendipitous revelation event to ignite their powers and thus be able to take their first level in that class?
Whatever you imagine, requiring spellcasters to have one or more levels in a non-spell-casting class before going spellcaster is a *very* serious nerf on spellcasting. But it could make for far more interesting characters.