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Hello Paizo...
I know you are the ones writing out the errata for the ACG but I thought you might be interested in some honest but constructive feedback regarding the Ecclesitheurge and some possible tweaking in the errata. I am not a designer or a writer but I do have 20+ years worth of RPG experience which I would like to think counts for something! I freely admit I thought the Ecclesitheurge was extremely poorly designed and is one of the worst cleric archetypes available which considering how bad the existing archetypes are, is saying something!
As it stands this is what the gains and losses are vs the standard cleric:
GAINS
• The ability to swap out his second domain for another
• Bonded item enabling one spell to be stored and cast past per day
• The ability to prepare his primary domain spells in regular spell slots
LOSSES
• Reduction in weapon proficiencies
• Complete removal of armour/shield capability and inability to gain proficiency in their use
• Reduction of channeling by 1D6
Even viewing the above on a superficial level, it is clear that the cons definitely outweigh the pros. Viewed on a deeper level the problems are magnified. My rationale for this is as follows:
• The ability to swap out a second domain is OK but nothing to get excited about since the domains in general are not that great. Some are good but many of them offer very little in terms of impact or flavour - lacking sufficient domain powers to make them of much worth.
• The bonded item is OK again but I feel should have given the option to acquire a familiar. This could have been done and worded as a form of spiritual ally - potentially opening up some great ideas for adding flavour to the class.
• The ability to prepare the primary domain in non-domain slots lacks impact. To be honest from the get go, the cleric should have the ability to prepare at least one of his domains in regular slots. Having 2 domains but only having the ability to cast one of them once per day is very underpowered and yet again robs the class of impact and flavour.
• I am full agreement with the reduction in weapon proficiency and in actual fact think you only did half the job. If you’re going to create a more caster focussed cleric, then does it properly - give them the option of only using their deities’ favoured weapon and say a staff. This like the armour could state explicitly that any deviation from this results in the removal of all powers. This is more thematically correct IMO and would enable you to give more in return in terms of powers/skills and thus flavour.
• The removal of armour/shield is correct but as stated previously is not compensated for adequately. By going down this path you rightly take away a significant chunk of not only the cleric’s potential melee capability, but also inadvertently its hugely significant role of being able to assist the party (close air support style) in combat via buffs/anti-buffs/heals/harms. If the intent is to distance the cleric more that’s fine but you don’t give anything in way of compensating for the fact that the cleric is now significantly more vulnerable. If the idea is for the cleric to carry on as before providing CAS (close air support) then you need to help facilitate this because as it stands this is a very poor choice indeed.
• The reduction is channelling power on the surface seems minor, but it opens up one of the biggest problems with the class IMO...... channelling is fairly poor overall. As a healing tool it is moderately useful at lower levels but even then demands feat investment to make it work effectively - this being a significant problem for a very feat stared class. In addition since it keys off Charisma this only accentuates one of the Cleric’s biggest problems - its MAD nature. Realistically you have to have a Charisma of 16 to make it worthwhile which even in a 25 point game is a major issue let alone in a 10 or 15 point game. As the you level up is becomes significantly less worthwhile - being able to heal on average 35 points of damage at 20th level is to be honest a bit of joke. The joke is made even worse when you analyse the fact that the cleric is just about one of the only classes with no capstone ability.... truly a massive slap in the face. Negative channelling is more effective but again only with significant feat investment and realistically choosing half-elf as your race. This yet again significantly limits its impact and flavour to the class as a whole.
So when you see the channelling reduced to a maximum of 9D6 it really is like kicking a man when he’s down.
I hope you can see something patently needs sorting out. Here are some suggestions for the Ecclesitheurge. Some of these ideas are related as well to the ceric class as a whole and may serve to provide ideas for future developments. I am not suggesting necessarily that all should be implemented but I feel they are all certainly viable options:
1) As suggested above, reduce further the weapon capability so as to be more thematically correct but to also give the option of being more appropriate in compensation.
2) Grant a permanent 3rd domain. If you feel this would be too much to offer from the start (a point that I would disagree with giving the current power/flavour level of domains in general) - you could have the 3rd domain only kick in at a later level say 6th or 7th. Another related option would be the ability to prepare both domain spells in non-domain slots or alternatively give the class 2 domain slots instead of one.
3) You have to make your mind up what to do either in making sure that the armour starved Ecclesitheurge isn’t obliterated in attempting to assist party members or suitably compensated/changed for becoming more distance caster focussed, akin to wizard/sorcerers.
4) Sort out channelling. IMO this is overall a very underwhelming ability especially at higher levels... multiple wands of CLW + higher level heal spells in general is more often than not enough to solve most problems. Leaving this aside, the reduction of 1D6 is petty and pointless. A possible idea would be to have the Ecclesitheurge choose from a range of divine options at first level; one of these could be the ability to channel but with selective channelling thrown in for free. This would at least reduce the feat burden on the feat starved cleric. Giving a player the choice of opting in or out of channelling would open all kinds of possibilities for the class. Alternatives to channelling such as extra feats, spell options from other lists or special abilities would serve to provide proper balance but also add some much needed flavour.
As it stands, the cleric is obliged to take an underpowered and MAD inducing option which only serves to hamper and weaken the class.
5) 4+ skill points per level. Not only is the cleric feat starved but it’s also skill starved! This is something that has been apparent for years and needs sorting. For a class that is supposed to be the backbone of the party this is an area that has a gaping hole.
6) D6 hit points. At the moment the Ecclesitheurge is a D8 class but very vulnerable.... thus making the possession of D8 HP largely redundant. Give it D6 HP and some compensation to do the job properly. This should be combined with wizard BAB (possibly even worse a la the ‘Archivist’ from 3.5) which would be entirely thematically appropriate. A huge number of people have been clamouring for a D6 divine class for years.... it really is a gaping hole and as I keep on saying a great opportunity to add flavour.
7) I have been recently writing up a D6 divine class called ‘The Apostle’ which has as one of its special abilities - ‘The Stigmata’..... for the blood sacrifice of HP the ability to power up spells. Something along these lines could be thought over...
To summarise, I completely understand issues regarding space in publications. But let’s be honest, a great many people have spoken at length on the forums over the validity and OP nature of several of the classes released in the ACG (the Arcanist being a prime example) and so to say as an excuse there wasn’t enough space for the Ecclesitheurge is a complete joke and indicative of how badly divine classes have been treated under Pathfinder. D&D 3.5 gave a much better and balanced representation of the divine classes and subsequently more people enjoyed playing clerics.
Pathfinder has done (and continues to do) very little in this regard and so we are left with classes like the Ecclesitheurge which are very underpowered, and completely lacking in balance and flavour. As one of the 4 original classes, the cleric deserves more respect than it currently gets. It is a class that offers a vast amount of RP possibilities that is at the moment severely hampered. The Ecclesitheurge is quite possibly the poster child for highlighting this issue....... extremely poorly designed.
Finally, 3PP have answered the calls of customers effectively and provided effective archetypes. Some do take up more space than others, but certainly in the case of the priest and theosophist, some excellent variation is achieved in not a lot of space.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/kobold-press /theosophist
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/pri est
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/flaming-crab-games/priest
As shown above.....The proof is in the pudding Paizo.... do what should have been done..... sort out the Ecclesitheurge (and by default, the Cleric) PROPERLY.....
Shameless bump....