Character deck and dying


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


I have no doubt this has been discussed to a certain extent before, but I wanted to see what you thought about a small twist on this issue.

As the rules stand, when you can not draw up to your full hand size at the end of your turn (an possibly other circumstances) you are dead. My first reaction was that is completely stinks. Only after having taken a 6 to 7 card power feat last night did this enter my mind again. So I realize that this has undoubtedly been balance, but I want to see what people would think of another option.

What if, instead dying when you can't draw up, you die when you are completely out of cards. WAIT!! Don't judge yet...

What if when you can no longer draw up, something sort of like PFRPG takes over. So when you have no draw deck and your turn is over, you must lose (banish, bury, open to ideas here) a card. When you are out of cards you are dead.

Has anything like this been discussed in development? I have no doubt that drawing up vs. running out of cards was discussed, but what about the mechanism to lose a card as long as you can't draw? I don't know how I feel about a constitution check to not lose the card, but perhaps that would be an option as well. Haven't put much thought into that part though.

Just some food for thought.

Grand Lodge

Considering that the mechanics have been in place now for over a year, sorry.

We've all known that at the end of your turn you need to reset your hand. If you do not have enough cards to draw up to your hand size, you die.

This product was playtested quite a bit prior to being released at GenCon 2013 with Rise of the Runelords. And juggling your hand size and increasing it is a risk you have to factor in right away. A wizard with a hand size of 8 ... risky. But the potential for such great things!

So don't expect it to change.

Grand Lodge

That being said, there is always the option to homebrew the rules for your local group to incorporate your ideas.

I just didn't want you to get your hopes up that such a change would occur for standard game play or organized play.


Strickhouser wrote:


What if when you can no longer draw up, something sort of like PFRPG takes over. So when you have no draw deck and your turn is over, you must lose (banish, bury, open to ideas here) a card. When you are out of cards you are dead.

I know nobody likes to die, but I have a very thematic opposition to your idea (if I may).

In RPG, warriors are tougher than wizards. This is translated in the card game in them (the warriors) having a smaller hand size, so that when drawing to their full hand size after taking damage, they tend to empty their deck slower (the drawback is that they have less choice of actions).

If, like in your idea, a large hand size (like sorcerers have) enables you to survive longer... you just killed the HP advantage of fighters vs mages, while the mages still have the advantage of versatility.

I always appreciate nice creative ideas, but IMHO I would really vote against this one. Sorry.

Sovereign Court

I think Theryon and Frencois hit the two major pieces perfectly. It's way too massive of a change to the entire way the game plays, and even thematically, it doesn't work.

If a change were ever to happen (I hope it doesn't), I wouldn't mind seeing your idea, except you bury the amount of cards you weren't able to draw.

6 hand size, 4 in your hand, no deck at the end of your turn? Bury 2 cards. Next turn, 2 in hand? Bury 4. Can't? Dead.


I have to admit that EVERYONE having a 15hp deck didn't really occur to me. That would be the biggest caveat about my idea. But, it was just an idea. I would tend to agree that the system is correct as is. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken my extra card power with a ranger.

Grand Lodge

Right away, probably not with the ranger but as you add more cards to his deck, it is nice to have more cards in your hand.

That's part of the balance of the game. I rarely recommend increasing the hand size before you actually have more than your base deck size.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:

Right away, probably not with the ranger but as you add more cards to his deck, it is nice to have more cards in your hand.

That's part of the balance of the game. I rarely recommend increasing the hand size before you actually have more than your base deck size.

The one exception here is if you're a ranger or bard that uses your power a lot. Because you tend to recharge so many cards, your hand size effectively becomes 2 or 3 lower than what is listed on your card. Because of that, you can afford to go hand size much earlier than, say, a cleric or wizard with the same hand size (or, gods forbid, a sorcerer. A hand size increase on them is a death sentence.)

Grand Lodge

I actually don't recommend increasing the hand size until your character has earned at least a card feat.

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