How many PCs in an AP?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


In the Advancemet Track section of each AP there is no clues about haw many PCs are needed. Maybe 4? Or is it irrelevant?


APs assume you have four PCs built with a 15 pt stat array.


In theory, if you are using XP, you can run an AP with any number of characters and it will balance out over time. PCs will receive a smaller share of the XP, and level slower, so while they might walk right through the early encounters they will eventually face greater challenges at lower level than a small party would.

In practice, this can make for a less-than-optimal play experience, and most GMs choose to augment the challenges instead and keep the party on track for the default assumptions (4 PCs).

If you have 3 or 5 PCs, you can probably get away with running things as printed.

2 or 6 PCs, and things start getting pretty swingy.

1 or 7 PCs, and all bets are off.


I personally like running adventures with 2 PCs. In the case of AP, how about 2 PCs in a Fast XP progression?


Assuming they don't die, they'll stay approximately 2 levels ahead of a 4-person medium XP track party.

Once they were past book 1 (i.e., out of the die in one hit levels) they'd probably be fine; you could give them an NPC assistant or two if you're finding action economy to be an issue.


I've run the first book of an AP for two characters.

They'll have to be clever and tactically minded -- not just blundering through encounters but doing reconnaissance and ensuring that the odds are in their favor.

It can actually make for a superb campaign.

Of course, the GM can take nothing for granted if they go this route. Every encounter has to be scrutinized, especially those that rely on large groups of enemies, as the players will have at most 2-4 actions (assuming both had an animal companion, eidolon, or other trick).

If that's too laborious, then perhaps just inviting Chuck's cousin over to play is a better move... if she's not a total jerk, right?


I think the newer ones assume 20 point builds, but yeah, 4 person parties.

2 PC's huh? Well, may be hard when you get into massive saving throw issues. See, when the game throws down a fear effect with a DC 19 it assumes of the 4 players at least 2 will make their saves and be able to fight. With a 2 person party it becomes a lot more likely that they may not make the save.

I agree with Zhangar, past book 1 the increased level and WBL will likely make them ok, but you really have to figure out what to do with effects that cause fear, dazed, paralysis, stun, even staggered and the like, especially if its for more than a single round. And remove all save or die effects.

Maybe allow a 30 point build and use hero points.


Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
Maybe allow a 30 point build and use hero points.

A word of caution: I let my players talk me into higher point buy and extra traits and such at the outset of my two-man campaign. When the game proved popular and other people started begging to be admitted to the game, I instantly regretted this indulgence. If the campaign has any potential to expand at all, you'll find yourself with a party that is much stronger than it should be.

The best thing to do is take a hard line. The XP system will make them more powerful than normal at any given point in the AP, if they earn it. If a new player joins, have them start at half the original PCs level, that will help bring the APL down without dooming the new PC entirely. Everyone gets the normal starting benefits, nothing more... unless you're prepared to deal with a full party having the same benefits some day.


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I have to agree with MEL. Often groups will grow in size. Sometimes you will have players leave... but even so you still will more often than not accumulate players over time.

My big Night Below campaign started out with just a husband and wife. Eventually they were letting a friend sleep on their sofa and we gained a third player. They all moved into two halves of a duplex and that friend got married, and we got a fourth. Those two brought in their buddy and we got a fifth. And after that campaign ended a sixth player joined us (and then the first husband-and-wife got divorced, she got the group with the exception of the last girl, and I sided with him.

My next group started out with that chap and his fiancee. I met a lady at work, brought her into the game... and then introduced another friend via Skype. And finally brought in his friend via Skype as well for a fifth player.

So you're going to see new players join in more often than not. If there is a problem, then run a Bard NPC who is following the group and telling their stories, and have him/her specialize in healing and defensive magic. The bardic song and extra healing will boost the two-person group and keep things from being too overpowered - and when new players join, you can retire the NPC.

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Alternatively, give the group one Mythic Tier. It helps a bit, and just one Tier is not overpowering.

Or for that matter you can give each player 3 Hero Points and have the Hero Points regenerate for each game. And when new players show up, tell them the Hero Points no longer regenerate because the extra players will help compensate.


Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
A word of caution: I let my players talk me into higher point buy and extra traits and such at the outset of my two-man campaign. When the game proved popular and other people started begging to be admitted to the game, I instantly regretted this indulgence. If the campaign has any potential to expand at all, you'll find yourself with a party that is much stronger than it should be.

Good point, my assumption was that was a non-factor, but this is a very good point.


15 points is still the standard assumption for APs and regular modules. It's the Pathfinder Society scenarios (and therefore Pathfinder Society character creation) which assumes 20 points.


ok…assuming 2 PCs, which AP and what two character classes could actually pull it off?


I had good results with two PCs in Kingmaker. That AP has a lot of potential for reconnaissance and ambushes, allowing the PCs to pace themselves appropriately.


Which two classes?

I'm going to suggest the Swashbuckler (with one of the templates allowing firearms) and the Investigator. The adventure? Rise of the Runelords.

The first two books are quite doable, up 'til you reach Xanesha. And given that the group would be level 7 easily by the time they reach her, they could very well add a couple of support classes with the Leadership Feat. But even without Leadership, they'd do quite well in that the Swashbuckler could be deflecting half of the attacks against himself while the Investigator would provide healing and extra damage. Indeed, if they were smart I could see an Investigator and Swashbuckler able to face down and defeat Xanesha.

Actually, a Swashbuckler and an Investigator would probably do well in Mummy's Mask as well.


It should also be noted that the 4 PCs party are assumed of being: Full BaB Martial, a Skill Monkey, a Divine Caster and an Arcane Caster, so deviating from this might requires some adjustments of some encounters.

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