Radical rethink of what stats apply to

[rangerjeff]

okay, I get the KISS philosophy, but...

Reflex save should be both DEX and STR (you need the STR to give oomph behind the initial reaction)

Fort save should be both CON and STR (ever heard of the Chicago cop who took a 22 to the chest and was fine because of his 4" thick pecs?)

to hit should be STR, DEX, and INT, and maybe WIS, too

traditionally CHA based skills should have INT and WIS factored in, too

dam should also be STR (force), DEX (hitting where you want to), and INT (knowing the best place to hit)

AC: DEX, INT, WIS (base reflex, tactics, experience or sense motive) and AC should go up with level like + to hit (though hit points essentially account for that)

and all maybe in a complicated fashion, like best bonus first, then 2nd best -1, then 3rd -2 (but only as bonuses) so to hit with melee with 14 STR, 16 DEX, and 14 INT might be +3 for DEX, +1 for either STR or INT, and that's it for +4 total, or else best plus half of secondaries, so +3 plus 1/2*(2+2)=2 for +5 total.

In real life, given my experience as a wrestler, and from what else I've seen, combat ability is heavily dependent on INT and WIS. And personality based skills definitely are not just charm, but ability to relate (WIS) and breadth of knowledge to be able to relate (INT)

Okay, so this is going against 40 years of DnD history, so I don't expect anything to change with this thread (we still only have 9 levels of spells...) but it's an idea I think is interesting.

And I bring it up because it seems balanced characters are weak compared with 1 or 2 stat specialized characters, and that's on the one hand just not right, and on the other a limitation on effective builds. Why can't a 16/14/14/14/10/10 character be just as effective as a 18/16/12/12/8/8 build at 1st lvl?

ah hell, who hasn't tried to go off and make their own indy rpg, the trick is getting others to come along with you... but as I said at the beginning, it's also about keeping it as simple as possible...

[Rynjin]

If this were a videogame it would be perfect.

As a Tabletop Game, you have to realize that the KISS philosophy is a lot more of a rigid rule than just a guideline when it comes to this sort of thing.

Remember, you have to keep track of all of this shit manually, and the more stats that apply to different things the more potential there is for catastrophic over/underselling of a character's abilities.

[Roberta Yang]

I like how you've made Cha even less useful while making every other stat apply to more things.

[Weirdo]

rangerjeff wrote:

And personality based skills definitely are not just charm, but ability to relate (WIS) and breadth of knowledge to be able to relate (INT)

Except Cha includes empathy. Also known as ability to relate to others. And breadth of experience is not covered by Int.

Wis might help you in a social situation if you notice your audience reacting poorly (Sense Motive).

Int might help you by allowing you to study persuasive techniques (Skill ranks) or remember points of etiquette or local customs (Knowledge Nobility or Local).

There's also plenty of ways to leverage different ability scores in combat. Knowledge skills give you monster weaknesses, for example. You can get feats or abilities that add Wis-based or Int-based combat modifiers (Guided Hand, Kirin Style, Canny Defense, Monk's AC bonus, Cunning Initiative). A low Dex hurts the AC of most builds, and a dumped con hurts your HP.

A complicated system with secondary and tertiary scores for everything is not needed.