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At first it was "just" another tragic shooting of a minority kid by a white cop in a area that is 2/3 black, yet 50 out of 53 of the cops are white. But things have gone from a normal level of horrible, to a more serious level of really horrible.
There are deeply disturbing things happening in the aftermath of the shooting. Several factors point towards the adoption of the "Miami Model" by "local" police. The Miami Model is a fairly sophisticated, yet also simple set of tactics that the police have been using for over a decade to clamp down on protest. You can find out about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_model
In Ferguson, the police have really gone for the militarization stuff including the armored personal carriers, what look to me like guns more fit for war then crowd control, as well as masks, no ID, full body armor, etc. The police are making preemptive arrests, blocking off areas, and treating journalists who are not "embedded" as criminals. They are also pushing many of the common propaganda lines of the Miami Model, such as "bad outsiders disrupting local peaceful protests", "good people stay home", "allowed vs forbidden protests" etc. I can say from my own personal experience, as well as following large scale protest events for over ten years, that the whole thing is horse s~@&!
At almost every major event the Miami Model is used, the corporate media play along, a "good protester" march is allowed, then the cops beat up and jail people on a massive scale. Usually the cases are thrown out of court on basic constitutional grounds. Years later, the arrested and assaulted collectively get millions from tax payers, the police in charge get promoted, and the whole thing gets repeated in the next city.
What is happening in Ferguson is especially disturbing because of the rapid nature of the use of the Miami Model. Normally it takes a while to build up, but it seems to have happened overnight in Ferguson. I can basically guarantee that the local cops got some serious assistance from someone at a Federal level, in much the same way that they got help to crush the Occupy movement. I can also guarantee that this isn't the last time a response like this will happen at a smaller and more local level.
Finally, there is the old saying about hard hats making hard heads. When you dress people up like stormtroopers (Nazi stormtroopers, not the fun kind) guess what? They act the part. Expect them to treat the local citizens as enemy combatants, right down to the detention and later advanced interrogation techniques. You didn't expect that stuff to just end overseas did you? The guys doing it over there came home, joined the police, and are willing to please there commanding officers.
One last thing- I had heard something about St Louis reaching an agreement back in the day between The Powers and The People in regards to maintaining a level of peace. Seems like shooting an unarmed teenager violated that agreement, and rather then make peace, The Powers is doubling down on violence. I think this could lead to a much larger scale problem unless some serious negotiation/restitution takes place.
The DoJ and FBI are both investigating the initial shooting, and the state police are coming in to relieve the locals tonight.
Methinks Ferguson authorities had no idea of the national scrutiny they would receive and are flailing in their responses. They have not responded to FOIA petitions or lawsuits for information filed by major national organizations and seem to think they can get by by simply ignoring them. What on earth they thought they were doing arresting local aldermen and national press is beyond me.
As segregated as St. Louis is, I'm pleased the violence hasn't spread further and that the people in the community are generally peaceful and helpful.
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Nixon (Jay, not Richard) pulled the St. Louis County Police from the area and replaced them with the state highway patrol captained by a man who grew up in the area.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is an excellent news organization which is doing a good job of covering Ferguson's troubles and linking to other news coverage as well. It can be viewed at stltoday.com.
Ferguson is one of the communities immediately surrounding St. Louis City and located within the County of St. Louis, along with 90 or so similar communities. The population is working-class poor and primarily (67% or so) black. It's home to Emerson Electric as well as many other small businesses.
I've played with the St. Louis Community College orchestra at Florissant Valley, located at West Florissant and 270, just north of the hot zone. I had no fear driving in the area or stopping in local businesses. This is not a derelict urban wasteland run by gangsters; it is a low- to middle-class community full of decent, hard-workng people. People who are having loaded guns trained on them and tear gas fired into their back yards by those who vowed to serve and protect them.
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Apparently of fifteen thousand African Americans in twenty thousand pop Ferguson only fifteen hundred voted.
I'm not sure which election you're discussing nor what point you're trying to make, but 10% is about average in Missouri.
Numbers without context are pointless.
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Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
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Well get mad at white cops and take it out on innocent business owners, way to show the police you are such a bunch of innocent people.
You want "justice" you wait for the facts to come out. You want blood and and excuse to act like an animal you get Ferguson.
Wonder if they PROVE the cop acted appropriately in self defense if any of these "protesters" will apologize.....
Well get mad at white cops and take it out on innocent business owners, way to show the police you are such a bunch of innocent people.
You want "justice" you wait for the facts to come out. You want blood and and excuse to act like an animal you get Ferguson.Wonder if they PROVE the cop acted appropriately in self defense if any of these "protesters" will apologize.....
nope. If my source is to be believed, a lot of the people rioting and acting stupid have been from outside of the area. There have been issues with the police for years in and out of Ferguson, and people came from out of town to fight back against any perceived injustice, bringing bad apples with them. The militarized amongst the police were looking for an excuse to play with their toys.
Nixon (Jay, not Richard) pulled the St. Louis County Police from the area and replaced them with the state highway patrol captained by a man who grew up in the area.
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is an excellent news organization which is doing a good job of covering Ferguson's troubles and linking to other news coverage as well. It can be viewed at stltoday.com.
Ferguson is one of the communities immediately surrounding St. Louis City and located within the County of St. Louis, along with 90 or so similar communities. The population is working-class poor and primarily (67% or so) black. It's home to Emerson Electric as well as many other small businesses.
I've played with the St. Louis Community College orchestra at Florissant Valley, located at West Florissant and 270, just north of the hot zone. I had no fear driving in the area or stopping in local businesses. This is not a derelict urban wasteland run by gangsters; it is a low- to middle-class community full of decent, hard-workng people. People who are having loaded guns trained on them and tear gas fired into their back yards by those who vowed to serve and protect them.
I was about to say you seem quite knowledgeable about this, then I remembered where you live. Thank you for sharing.
things have been tense around here as well. Cops are openly nervous, and people are worried that Ferguson may obfuscate SI.
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nope. If my source is to be believed, a lot of the people rioting and acting stupid have been from outside of the area. There have been issues with the police for years in and out of Ferguson, and people came from out of town to fight back against any perceived injustice, bringing bad apples with them. The militarized amongst the police were looking for an excuse to play with their toys.Well get mad at white cops and take it out on innocent business owners, way to show the police you are such a bunch of innocent people.
You want "justice" you wait for the facts to come out. You want blood and and excuse to act like an animal you get Ferguson.Wonder if they PROVE the cop acted appropriately in self defense if any of these "protesters" will apologize.....
"excuses" like people throwing stuff at them? Do not throw things at the police, dumb idea at best. Reason to get teargassed or shot potentially too. In a lot of areas the "problems with the police" is they are mad that their criminal family members getting caught.
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Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
And that's the cop's story. That's his defense. That's the absolute best it gets for the defense. "He grabbed for my gun, so I shot him, then shot him
and killed him while he was running away."
Even if that's true, it's completely unjustified. Shooting an unarmed, fleeing individual is not within the officer's rights.BTW, can we not start with "black criminal", when the person in question has no criminal record and wasn't engaged in criminal activity other than the alleged assault on the officer. Which is disputed at best.
No one is a criminal until they are. Maybe he was having a bad day or something and made a very stupid choice. you do NOT assault a cop if you do not want shot
Also waiting for PROOF of what happened. we do not know what happened so we need to stop speculating and judging based on that until we know the FACTS.
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Some links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed.
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Some links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed.
Multiple? So far we have heard his friend and the cops. i am not aware of any other witness stories. We will have to wait and see but i tend to trust the cop more than the friend, especially given what was said. true that he could be lying but we will have to see. The animal rioters and looters getting hurt is just plain fine by me though
things have been tense around here as well. Cops are openly nervous, and people are worried that Ferguson may obfuscate SI."SI"?
He's talking about the murder of Eric Garner by the NYPD on Staten Island.
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Multiple? So far we have heard his friend and the cops. i am not aware of any other witness stories. We will have to wait and see but i tend to trust the cop more than the friend, especially given what was said. true that he could be lying but we will have to see. The animal rioters and looters getting hurt is just plain fine by me thoughSome links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed.
"animal" rioters? Yeah I've seen this narrative from people like you before Andrew.
There are TWO witnesses who have basically come forward with pretty much the same story. The friend and another young woman who was there on the street who saw the whole thing and was about to take a video but then the bullets started flying and saw the rest from under cover.
But she's black too. So I'm pretty sure that you'll discount what she says as a lie as well.
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Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
"Black Criminal"?!?! WTF?!?
He WASNT A CRIMINAL. He was literally walking in the street with his friend on the way home when the altercation on the street started.
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Multiple? So far we have heard his friend and the cops. i am not aware of any other witness stories. We will have to wait and see but i tend to trust the cop more than the friend, especially given what was said. true that he could be lying but we will have to see. The animal rioters and looters getting hurt is just plain fine by me thoughSome links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed."animal" rioters? Yeah I've seen this narrative from people like you before Andrew.
There are TWO witnesses who have basically come forward with pretty much the same story. The friend and another young woman who was there on the street who saw the whole thing and was about to take a video but then the bullets started flying and saw the rest from under cover.
But she's black too. So I'm pretty sure that you'll discount what she says as a lie as well.
looting burning businesses and shooting at cops is about as animal as you can get. THEY acted that way, there is no "narrative"
Have seen nothing yet about a witness not actually involved. Their color is not important nor is the cops.
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Multiple? So far we have heard his friend and the cops. i am not aware of any other witness stories. We will have to wait and see but i tend to trust the cop more than the friend, especially given what was said. true that he could be lying but we will have to see. The animal rioters and looters getting hurt is just plain fine by me thoughSome links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed."animal" rioters? Yeah I've seen this narrative from people like you before Andrew.
There are TWO witnesses who have basically come forward with pretty much the same story. The friend and another young woman who was there on the street who saw the whole thing and was about to take a video but then the bullets started flying and saw the rest from under cover.
But she's black too. So I'm pretty sure that you'll discount what she says as a lie as well.
looting burning businesses and shooting at cops is about as animal as you can get. THEY acted that way, there is no "narrative"
Have seen nothing yet about a witness not actually involved. Their color is not important nor is the cops.
Of course not because there is no racial problem with white cops murdering unarmed black men on a fairly regular basis in this country. It has NOTHING to do with race. AT ALL.
And before we get to the rest of the White Right Playbook. Yes Black on Black crime is a problem. But the POLICE are supposed to be in service to the PUBLIC not just hard working God fearing white folk. So it's a problem when the the people there to serve the public trust? Start arbitrarily murdering the people that they are supposed to be protecting.
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Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
"Black Criminal"?!?! WTF?!?
He WASNT A CRIMINAL. He was literally walking in the street with his friend on the way home when the altercation on the street started.
it started with them being told to get out of the street and them refusing according to the friend.
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Of course not because there is no racial problem with...Multiple? So far we have heard his friend and the cops. i am not aware of any other witness stories. We will have to wait and see but i tend to trust the cop more than the friend, especially given what was said. true that he could be lying but we will have to see. The animal rioters and looters getting hurt is just plain fine by me thoughSome links.
Andrew,
btw, if you want us to wait for proof, how about you wait for some before accusing the teenager of assaulting the cop when that's not any more proven, and directly contradicted by multiple eyewitness statements? Oh, right, that fits your narrative so it's obviously true without evidence needed."animal" rioters? Yeah I've seen this narrative from people like you before Andrew.
There are TWO witnesses who have basically come forward with pretty much the same story. The friend and another young woman who was there on the street who saw the whole thing and was about to take a video but then the bullets started flying and saw the rest from under cover.
But she's black too. So I'm pretty sure that you'll discount what she says as a lie as well.
looting burning businesses and shooting at cops is about as animal as you can get. THEY acted that way, there is no "narrative"
Have seen nothing yet about a witness not actually involved. Their color is not important nor is the cops.
it might have something also to do with a massive disproportionate amount of crimes being commited by blacks and them much more often resisting but nah must just be whitey getting bored and doing this for fun right.
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I've never seen animals burn businesses or shoot cops, but I grant you, New Hampshire doesn't have as much wildlife as it used to.
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And before we get to the rest of the White Right Playbook. Yes Black on Black crime is a problem. But the POLICE are supposed to be in service to the PUBLIC not just hard working God fearing white folk. So it's a problem when the the people there to serve the public trust? Start arbitrarily murdering the people that they are supposed to be protecting.
How do you want them to adress that crime if they are not allowed to arrest the criminals? they are the bad guys when they do and god forbid they actually have to fight a resisting criminal, then they are just hurting blacks for fun, right?
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it started with them being told to get out of the street and them refusing according to the friend.Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
"Black Criminal"?!?! WTF?!?
He WASNT A CRIMINAL. He was literally walking in the street with his friend on the way home when the altercation on the street started.
Wait...and you're saying that that refusal is justification to be murdered? Because I've seen plenty of White D00d's (and women now that I think about it) talk back, even RUDELY, to police and not get murdered for it.
Telling the police that youre almost to your destination in response to a request doenst make you a criminal. And it certainly doenst mean that you as a law enforcement official DRIVE OFF then come back and almost hit the two men with the car.
You're making excuses for the justification of the murder of this kid. Please do me a favor. Don't respond to any of my posts. I dont mind discussing sort of thing. I just like doing it with other human beings capable of empathy for people who dont look like them.
Have a good day.
Man Is Shot and Killed by the Police in California
In case this story, being less dramatic than the Ferguson riots, went by the wayside.
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"animal" rioters? Yeah I've seen this narrative from people like you before Andrew.Of course "animals" is part of the police approach here. He's not pulling it out of the blue.
A White Ferguson police offer was captured on video aggressively taunting the Black protestors who decry the shooting death of unarmed black teen Michael Brown.
“Bring it, all you f–king animals! Bring it!” the officer said during the tense volleying of threats and insults.No racial implications there at all.
The police chief apparently has a Confederate flag displayed in his living room, but I'm sure that's just about pride in his southern heritage, again with no racial implications.
Not everyone who loves the south is a racist but it is certainly possable and not a good sign. Need a bit more proof than that theat he is indeed a racist. of course all of the race hate being thrown at the cops is just fine i see.
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it started with them being told to get out of the street and them refusing according to the friend.Well this is a total mess. People should calm down until the FBI gets to the truth. Riots turn your side into the bad guys... mass peaceful protests would have done the job much better.
Personally I have heard so far that the black criminal attempted to take the white officers weapon in the car injuring the officer in a non-life threatening way and then the officer fired at the black teen in the car at least once and after the black teen fled on foot he fired at least twice at the fleeing felon. Witnesses say the teen then tried to surrender but that the policeman gunned him down anyway.
{IF all of this is true; that is a big IF since this is racially charged and people are probably lying on both sides to a greater or lesser degree.} Then the policeman should either be arrested for aggravated murder. Since up until the point the teen surrendered the officer was within his rights, but NOT after he surrendered. OR if the witnesses are lying and the boy was shot to death either in the car or while trying to flee then the officer should go on desk duty till people calm down.
The officer's innocence will be determined by the FBI. My prayers go out to those who are suffering on both sides right now.
"Black Criminal"?!?! WTF?!?
He WASNT A CRIMINAL. He was literally walking in the street with his friend on the way home when the altercation on the street started.
So his friend isn't reliable when he says Mr Brown was shot while unarmed and without assaulting the police, but is when he says they were ordered off the street by the police? So he's reliable when he agrees with you and not when he doesn't? It's like you're not even trying anymore.
I've never seen animals burn business or shoot cops, but I grant you, New Hampshire doesn't have as much wildlife as it used to.But oddly, it's something humans, pretty much any group of them, do under the proper circumstances. At least a small fraction of any group, Oppression, poverty, hopelessness, a triggering event and an attempt to control the reaction with even more oppressive force.
Then we can label them "animals", which justifies further oppression.
None of which justifies the burning and looting. It just makes it predictable.
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Agreed NOTHING justifies burning and looting. It's wrong first of all and it just serves to give fuel to other people who dehumanize the people who just simply dont want to be murdered for something like say walking in the street.
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I don't know. The sixities riots helped give us the Great Society.
"What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?"