Using 5 elements

[Ascalaphus]

Normal PF is built on 4 classical elements and "associated" energy types; fire->fire, water->cold, earth->acid and air->lightning.

We also have (since Ultimate Magic) some other elemental schools of magic: Wood and Metal. (We'll ignore Void for now.)

These come from the eastern concept of Wu Xing.

So I was thinking. How would it work to rebuild PF to use the elements of Wood, Metal, Earth, Fire and Water?

I thought maybe the damage associations should become:

Wood->Acid (digestive saps)
Metal->Lightning (conducting electricity)
Water->Cold
Fire->Heat
Earth->Sonic (earthquakes)

What sort of ripple effects would this have on the game system? What other things would need to be changed? I'm thinking that sonic damage (and resistance?) would become a lot more common. What else?

[Indagare]

I guess, to begin with, Wu Xing isn't the elements in the same sense that the Western concept are. According to the wiki article, they represent states of energies that transition to one another, so in that capacity you could just use the five energies of Pathfinder as a base. If you did it this way, then you would have to consider which of the energies best suits which of the elements. Unfortunately, Fire and Heat are the only clearly obvious ones. Depending on your view of the other four, different energies could be equally associated with them.

In order to help out, here's the two Cycles as listed on the wiki:

In the Generating Cycle it as: Wood -> Fire -> Earth -> Metal -> Water -> Wood. As the page states: Wood feeds Fire; Fire begets Earth (ash); Earth bears Metal; Metal enriches Water (via minerals); Water nourishes Wood.

In the Overcoming Cycle it is Wood > Earth > Water > Fire > Metal > Wood. Again: Wood parts Earth; Earth blocks Water; Water extinguishes Fire; Fire melts Metal; Metal cuts Wood.

In terms of the energies, the associations could do something similar, though I'm not sure how it would end up working out. My thoughts are:

Generating Cycle:

Acid -> Heat -> Sound -> Lightning -> Cold -> Acid

Acid bears Heat; Heat produces Sound; Sound speeds Lightning; Lightning leaves Cold; Cold catalyzes Acid

Another couple Generating Cycle I thought up don't quite match the traditional elements as they're presented:

Lightning -> Sound -> Cold -> Acid -> Heat -> Lightning

Lightning produces Sound; Sound spreads Cold; Cold catalyzes Acid; Acid bears Heat; Heat begets Lightning

or

Lightning -> Heat -> Sound -> Cold -> Acid -> Lightning

Lightning begets Heat; Heat produces Sound; Sound spreads Cold; Cold catalyzes Acid; Acid bears Lightning

Overcoming Cycle:

Acid > Sound > Cold > Heat > Lightning > Acid

Acid absorbs Sound; Sound cracks Cold; Cold freezes Heat; Heat disperses Lightning; Lightning blasts Acid

Of course, there are others, though they don't quite match up with your idea for the elements:

Lightning > Sound > Heat > Cold > Acid > Lightning

Lightning outraces Sound; Sound disperses Heat; Heat melts Cold; Cold freezes Acid; Acid disrupts Lightning

or

Lightning > Sound > Cold > Acid > Heat > Lightning

Lightning outraces Sound; Sound cracks Cold; Cold freezes Acid; Acid blocks Heat; Heat absorbs Lightning

Of course, they represent a lot more and if you scroll down that wiki page you can see some of the other associations.

To put it here for ease of discussion:

Element: Wood
Materials: Wind, Sound, Moisture, Air, Minerals, Mana, Ink, Acid, Mind, Rubber, Paper, Plants, Poison, Static, Wax, Carbon, Health, Space

Element: Fire
Materials: Heat, Light, Lava, Soap, Radiation, Sparks, Plasma, Explosions, Bleach, Stars, Blood, Burn, Blaze, Oil, Glass, Sun, Spirit

Element: Earth
Materials: Clay, Rock, Dust, Sand, Mud, Energy, Matter, Powder, Space, Sugar, Darkness, Smoke, Ash, Gravity, Muscle, Quake, Silicon

Element: Metal
Materials: Clouds, Magnetism, Rust, Milk, Pure metals, Pure water, Virgin snow, Frost, Metallic alloys, Crystal, Forge

Element: Water
Materials: Sea, Gravel, Storms, Rain, Steam, Fluid, Mist, Slime, Sludge, Diamond, Salt, Time, Pressure, Moon, Mirror, Bone, Shadow

Your initial analysis of associated energies could work pretty well. Wood is associated with both Acid and Sound according to the wiki. Metal does conduct electricity (and thus Lightning), but it also has things like snow and frost (and thus Cold). Folks more familiar with the system would probably want to keep the Water-Cold association. Fire and Heat make sense. Earth and Sound make even more sense when you consider that sound travels faster through denser materials.

I'm not sure how much this could change overall, but it's easy to see where Oracle Mysteries or even Cleric Domains might get listed under one of the overarching elemental themes.

I'm also not sure how helpful this is. What are your thoughts?

[Ascalaphus]

I was mostly inspired by the other thread, about the elemental plane of wood. I was just poking around, looking for surprising effects if you alter the elements. I was thinking it would be mainly a lot of sorcerer bloodline blast powers that would need to change.

[DragGon7601]

I have also looked at changing the elements used for magic. I remembered playing a game years ago, I think it was Grandia... Anyway in that game magic was tied to the 4 elements Fire, wind, water & earth; You got ice & lightning spells later (when your skills were high enough) by combining 2 of those elements (Ice = Wind + Water | Lightning = Fire + wind). Naruto did something similar with its chakra, and had Wood be Earth and water, it also had the Ice as wind and water again. Metal would be Earth and Fire as "Earth bears Metal" (Wu Xing) when cooked as far as I know (could be wrong).

In most case's acid is a liquid (water) that burns (fire). I've been told that its the solids in the water that are the acid but have you seen a acid warning sign/symbol that depicts the acid as a solid rather than a liquid? I haven't.

That leaves only sound with out a combo to be made from... And Earth (solid) and Air (transparent) as the only combo that don't make something... Its up to you to decide if that fits...

Drawing that may help you understand.