Could bounded accuracy work in pathfinder? An experiment


Homebrew and House Rules


I had some time on my hands and decided to start expermimentint with the notion of bounded accuracy. Here's the "traditional" article that people reference: Bounded accuracy
However, a problem I have seen are a lack of numbers. And that irritates me. I've heard d&d next uses it, but I dont have access to that so I decided to experiment. How to make this work?

Well, my main intent is to deal with it in combat. I like scaling skills, so I wont deal with them yet. I am also limiting tihs to core classes & no monsters for simplicity.

1) Remove BAB, replace with BDB: this will probably be the hardest to scale, but it just exchanges more hits with stronger hits.

2) Rejigger saves/DCs: this is what I am unsure how to do properly.

3) Remove all +X AC, save, & stat items & effects: this reduces part of the scaling issue.

4) Reduce armor class & making harder to get OR armor as DR: this will require limiting the AC bonus of armors, or greatly increasing the difficulty of access. Armor as DR will eliminate the effects of AC changes, but would need to scale decently to match the scaling damage boni.

5) Reduce magic weapon bonuses to +3 max: in this case, you get through DR/magic at +1, DR/silver, cold iron at +2, DR/aligned & adamantine at +3. It gives a minor boost to attack, still feels kinda cool to have better weapons. Now that I think about it, with scaling damage, eliminating DR might not even be necessary.

6) Reduce WBL greatly: since you no longer "require" +X magic items, wealth is for other items. So WBL needs to be reworked.

7) Massive reworking of buff spells: Seriously. HUGE reworking. That would take time, but it would suffice to keeping low-boost spells to attack (like prayer) and switching others to boosting damage alone. I would also make it so natural armor & armor doesnt stack, to reduce the issues of barkskin.

So, these are the notes I've come up with so far. Havent even gotten into dealing with monsters, CR and other more elaborate challenges.

Has anybody worked on something similar? Anybody willing to crunch some numbers?


bump


I've played around with the idea of increasing accuracy not by adding static bonuses but rather by a "dice pool" method. It's designed more for a 3d6 based system, but my idea was to have a 3d6 roll and certain bonuses that add to your potential number of dice, but you're still taking the three best dice values to sum for your final value. So kind of like how you roll stats in a "4d6 drop lowest" sense. This gives a soft increase to accuracy which allows you to have creatures that somewhat scale in regards to difficulty to hit, but that isn't all that affects their scaling. The crux of the matter is that you can't hang scaling on just one or two criteria; it has to be a mix of several different aspects that balance each other. Trading "accuracy scaling" for "HP scaling" is just trading one set of problems for a different set of problems.

It could translate into a d20 system if you introduce multi-rolling where you roll x times and take the single best roll. A lot of little bonuses would probably have to be consolidated for this to work well.


Interesting. But I do have to admit I'm not fond of the "increasing dice" methodology. I prefer static bonuses myself, I just want to make the system less swingy.

I've been playing a bit of warhammer fantasy RPG 2ed lately, and it uses bounded accuracy. It works decently, but it relies too much on the dice.


I'm very interested in this sort of thing. It involves a major overhaul of the whole game, but I think it's a worthwhile, and maybe even necessary step towards future editions.

I like the effect it has on the player's ability to relate to what's happening, and how good a character or how dangerous a monster really is. However, I feel like this particular example (in the article) shifts too much of the burden onto hit points, which are also unrealistic and difficult for players to reconcile.

I mean, when a character is struck by a longsword for 8 damage, what does that look like if the character has, say, 70 HP, compared to if he has 10 HP? We have the same problem here, where players can't relate to what 8 damage means without comparing it to their character's current power level. It's equally difficult to imagine or narrate, and some immersion is lost in the process.

This is around where I usually get stuck when I think of making ground-floor renovations to a system like this.


Well, Gygax's original concept of HP was as "plot armor". It wasn't intended to represent the actual taking of physical wounds (at least, not entirely so), but taking "damage" was more using up your endurance to defend against attacks that weren't either avoided outright or deflected by armor. So having 10 HP means you have, say, only 2 points or so of actual physical hardiness (the last 2 HP you lose represent actual major damage to your body) and the other 8 points represents your endurance loss in turning away attacks that get by your primary defenses (Dexterity, Armor, and other defensive benefits). There are some systems that take a harder approach to this with characters having a sort of "endurance shield" that acts like Temporary HP do in Pathfinder and only once you're out of this endurance do you actually take physical damage to your body. So, while the 10 HP character is 2 Body, 8 Endurance, a 70 HP character may be 7 Body, 63 Endurance.

Another factor is that, no matter how fresh you are for the fight or how much damage you've taken, all characters fight with the exact same potency. You could whittle an opponent down to half their HP and they lose no offensive capacity for it. I'd like to see a change where damaging an enemy tires them out and reduces their performance.


Then how does stuff like poison and bleed work?

The way I view it is that wounds are described as a percentage of your total HP. 4 damage is like a trivial cut on a 100 HP character but is a sword through the gut on a 5 HP character.

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