As the title says, I am looking for a bit of feedback on a special material I am creating for my campaign setting. Just gonna throw up the qualities and the pricing.
Reduces ASF by 25%
Increases Max Dex by +2
Reduces ACP by 4 (to minimum 0)
Light armor: +6,000 gp
Medium armor: +11,000 gp
Heavy armor: +16,000 gp
It provides no other benefits other than reducing penalties, and costs 1,000 gp more than adamantine (so far).
So, what I am wanting feedback on is if the pricing reflects the benefits.
Thank you in advance for any feedback.
It seems quite powerful. I'd make it 1500 more than Adamantine, but I'm not an expert of this sort of thing.
Hmm, either the things I post in this forum are really horrible that I should just scrap them, or my attempts at creating things are good enough to where they don't need to really be revised. Each time I have posted something, I have at most gotten 3 replies.
As for my only reply in this thread: 1500 more than adamantine could be a better price for it. The material is my setting's version of Golarion's starmetals apparently, which makes it super rare (like the starmetals detailed in the first book of Shattered Star). But yeah, 1500 over adamantine could work.
I agree about the price increase. Also, since we are talking Homebrew, it would help to restrict access so PC can't just commission things in that material as long as they have the money.
Do you have a name for the stuff?
And, it's not necessarily your posts. The Homebrew forums just don't get the traffic som of the others get...
The full description I have for the material is this:
Arcanite: This yellow ringmetal is light and extremely flexible. Due to this property, it is useless when it comes to being used in weaponcrafting. Where it really shines is when used as a material for armor. Armor crafted from arcanite is highly prized by arcane spellcasters, as the inherent flexibility doesn’t hinder the delicate movements used in casting their spells.
Armors crafted from arcanite have their arcane spell failure chances reduced by 25%, their maximum Dexterity bonus increases by 2, and armor check penalty is reduced by 4 (minimum 0). Only armor normally made of metal can be made of arcanite.
Arcanite has 20 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 25.
It's a super rare metal that rarely falls from the rings that orbit the planet (similar to Saturn). Got the name from World of Warcraft, and the name makes me think "arcane", hence the properties of the metal.
And it would be restricted, definitely. My thinking with the various "ringmetals" of my campaign is if the players want something made of the metals, they will have to go in search of the metals and can't exactly go up to some random armorcrafter or spellcaster and have it made. There would be a very small chance that they may have some, but the price increase would probably be doubled. This includes adamantine and mithral (I spell it mythril for my setting) as well.
So, that's the "lore" behind the special material in the OP.
I enjoy game additions. I don't always know what to say, or the opposite happens and I say too much. I have a hard time finding a happy medium...
Since the armor is similar to, but better than, mithral for spellcasting purposes, I agree it should change a bit. Price is one way to go...
This yellow ringmetal is light and extremely flexible. . . Arcanite has 20 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 25. . . .
Steel has a hardness of 10 and hit points of 10 for most weapons. Mithral has a hardness of 15 and hit points of 30 per inch. I don't think it should be harder than mithral, which is less flexible but lighter, but it should definitely be better than steel. So... does hardness 15/15 hp per inch sound acceptable?
If it's that flexible, I almost want it to have another minor effect... like impact resistance. A suit of Arcanite distributes force a little more evenly than most metals. Treat a fall as 10' less (-1d6 falling damage)... Silly?
I made the hardness 25 (which is higher than adamantine, I think), to attempt to convey the foamy-rubbery consistancy I picture it having (to show why it is so light and flexible). Not sure if giving it such a hardness is the right choice in trying to show the flexibility and give it has, or if something else would be better suited for that. Maybe more hit points and less hardness?
I am a little loathe to add any other abilities to it, as the -25% ASF is super strong, but increasing the price to compensate probably wouldn't be too much of a hassle.
Also, despite it being lightweight, I didn't really want to change the armor category like mithral does. Didn't want to step on mithral's toes too much, even if the price is so much more expensive.
Interesting. I actually made up a material with the same exact name (Arcanite).
Giving it reduced ACP and increased MDB doesn't really push home the idea that it's supposed to be "caster-specific," and steps on a lot of Mithril's toes as is.
Here's my take on the material:
Armor and Shields crafted with Arcanite allows the class to become very proficient in casting with the armor, removing a net total of 25% of Arcane Spell Failure penalties (minimum 0), and adds a +2 bonus to the bearer's Spell Resistance toward all harmful spells directed at the user. The bearer must currently have Spell Resistance to receive this bonus. If the bearer does not have Spell Resistance, they instead receive a +2 bonus to Saves V.S. Spells and Spell-like Abilities. These bonuses can stack, but the Arcane Spell Failure reduction only applies to the item being created.
Weapons and Ammunition crafted with Arcanite have increased capabilities towards spells. Arcanite Weapons negate armor class generated through spells, reducing the target's total bonus granted from spells by 2, and increasing all spell/energy damage dealt by 2 for each source of spell/energy damage involved. This bonus applies to spells being cast while the wielder has an Arcanite weapon in hand, or with attacks made with the Arcanite weapon itself. Arcanite ranged weapons apply this benefit to the ammunition it uses.
Ammunition-like spells, such as Acid Arrow, can be amplified further if the caster sacrifices proper Arcanite ammunition as an additional material component as a Free Action. Doing so adds a +2 bonus to overcome Spell Resistance, reduces the target's total armor bonus granted from spells by 2, and deals an additional 2 Force damage per spell level.
Arcanite items are not assumed to be of masterwork quality, and such costs are to be added after the total cost is calculated. The cost of items crafted with Arcanite is otherwise dependent upon what is crafted:
Item Type - Cost
20 Ammunition - 300g/pound
Weapons - 1,000g/pound
Armor and Shields - 500g/pound
Being a rubbery-like flexible metal, I figured a reduced ACP would make sense, though reducing the number to 2 or even mithral's 3, I would not be opposed. I am not married to the increase in max Dex bonus, and would have no problem taking that part out, honestly.
The "source" of arcanite orbits thousands of miles above the planet, and doesn't exist in the ground. As for hardness, it basically equates as damage reduction, and a rubbery consistency, to me, would absorb (reduce) a lot of damage. That's why I originally went with a hardness above adamantine.
And I don't think this material entirely replaces mithral. The biggest draw of mithral is the reduction of armor category (heavy - medium, medium - light), which arcanite does not do, despite being "light and flexible". Maybe I should change the wording to "less dense and flexible", and reduce the armor bonus by 1 or 2.
How about this? The ACP is reduced by 20% (double that of mithral), ACP reduced by 3 (same as mithral), MDB increased by 2 (same as mithral), and reduces the armor bonus by 1 (or 2). It counts as masterwork (just like mithral and adamantine), that way the ACP reduction of masterwork is already worked in. Does not reduce the armor category like mithral. Costs the same as adamantine.
That makes all light armor has a 0% chance of spell failure (since hide isn't metal it can't be made of arcanite).
Only thing is, why would a spellcaster buy arcanite armor (getting a whopping 2 AC from an arcanite chain shirt, as that is the highest armor that would have a 0% ACP if we went with an AC bonus reduction of 2) for 5,100 gp when they can just purchase (not necessarily craft themselves) a pair of bracers of armor +2 for 4,000 gp, or craft a pair of bracers of armor +3 (which gives 1 more AC bonus) for 4,500 gp. And you wouldn't have to worry about a Max dex bonus or ACP. Which would basically invalidate this material's entire existance.
Yeah, an arcanite chain shirt would function in an antimagic field, but is +2 AC really worth 5,100 gp if we went the AC bonus reduction route?
I am beginning to rethink the direction of this material, if an ASF reduction of 20-25% is really powerful enough to make this material so prohibitively expensive when a pair of bracers of armor would be a cheaper way to go without any sort of penalty (max dex, spell failure, and check penalties) at all.
I think you're taking the assumption of "ASF is too stronk," when that's not the case at all. (If it makes you feel any better, I got the term Arcanite from WOW also, but I simply reflavored it to match the concept that Arcane Power is generally purple, and is only able to be harvested and crafted in the Planes of Arcana.) The problem I have with your version is that it is basically a Mithril 2.0, when it shouldn't be. The whole "counts as one category lighter" isn't the sole reason people get Mithril; MDB increases and ACP reductions are equally as important, if not moreso.
A higher-than-standard ASF should be common for a material specifically designed to be harnessed and utilized by spellcasters. The 25% ASF should be perfect because it's not really stepping on toes (who buys armor as a spellcaster? Who uses Mithril to reduce ASF on besides maybe Bucklers or Light Shields?). However, I believe an increased MDB or lowered ACP doesn't fit the factor that a Wizard should always travel light in the first place. If they want lowered MDB or ACP, there is already a material for that.
I instead went the direction in that standard armor does little to no good against arcane spells; Arcanite Armor, an armor solely designed for spellcasters going up against other spellcasters, should have an effect against such things. So I decided to include the +2 to existing Spell Resistance, or +2 to Saves V.S. Spells and Spell-Like Abilities so as to drive that point home. (I also should've included a +2 to AC V.S. Touch Spells, but that's a little much.) It's unique, it fits the purpose, and it's not entirely overpowered.
There are also Spellcasters who get into the fray; Rangers, Magi, Paladins, etc. And they should have weapons usable for similar purposes. So I propose Arcanite Weapons, reducing any armor class generated from spells by 2 when making attacks with those weapons, as well as add an additional +2 to existing energy damage dealt with successful attacks.
I also even went above and beyond, allowing Arcanite Ammunition to be used as an amplification component for spells like Acid Arrow to grant a +2 bonus to overcome Spell Resistance and add an additional +2 Force Damage per level of the spell being cast.
My original thought process was the material being slightly stiff rubber in feel would make for terrible weapons, which is why I just went with the armor. Maybe remove the ACP and MDB improvements of it, and give it a special property that gives a slight boost to casting. I already have a material that gives a bonus vs spellcasters (basically copying the Noqual material detailed in Shattered Star #1, except removing the lighter armor category of it). Although, just having the -25% ASF doesn't justify the adamantine price, I don't think. Maybe the inherant quality of the material gives a slight boost in caster level (+1 light, +2 medium, +3 heavy).
The special materials I have included in my setting, that are considered ringmetals (kinda like the skymetals of Golarion) are 9 in number. They follow the coloration of the visible light spectrum, plus black and white. They are (with slight description of those I have detailed):
Red: orichalcum (no description yet)
Orange: elementium (name from WoW, fits with my setting. Thinking of small elemental resistances/damage)
Yellow: arcanite (resonates with arcane magic) <-- basically think of crystal's association with psionics, in a way.
Green: adamantine (exact copy from the CRB)
Blue: mythril (exact copy of mithral from CRB)
Indigo: electrum (no description yet)
Violet: zyrithine (extremely dense and heavy, item weight is doubled, weapons deal damage as 1 category larger, armor category increases to next highest (light - medium, medium - heavy) and gives DR similar to adamantine)
Black: yangorum (acts like Noqual from Shattered Star #1, name based off of Yang)
White: yinorium (acts like Inubrix from Shattered Star #1, name based off Yin)
Only 1 metal is harder than adamantine (other than arcanite, which I am probably going to reduce the hardness to 15), which is zyrithine due to the metal's properties of excessive weight. Weapons made of zyrithine do not have the ability to bypass object hardness like adamantine.
I don't want to step on too many toes with any of these materials if possible, and arcanite's less dense and flexible nature just feels like it should reduce ACP and increase MDB. Maybe make them 1 each (half that of mythril/mithral). I want to make arcanite a desirable thing for casters, as I plan to do away with the bracers of armor (don't worry, I have a few ideas for the monk to make up for the bracers' removal). Or the reduction in ASF could be because of the inherant arcane properties.
So, to consolidate that a bit, I was thinking of arcanite having the following properties:
How does that sound? Still thinking of a stiff rubber type consistency, as I want to keep this material for armor only, and making your (Darksol) arcanite weapon abilities go with the elementium material properties. I don't like the thought of arcanite shields (mythril/mithral shields function just fine and are cheaper), so I will have to change up the "lore" description of the metal to reflect that.
I agree with Timebomb in that granting increased caster levels is a very powerful thing to do, and one that should be few/far between. Letting it go as armor/shield materials properties doesn't work too well, especially considering the constant Martial/Caster disparity. Imagine throwing 20D6 maximized/empowered/intensified Fireballs at level 15, and then a quickened 20D6 Fireball on top of that in a single round. Absolutely brutal.
The bonus to Concentrations is a great idea, and not gamebreaking. I'd rather keep it at a static +2 to keep consistency with the other armors, since remember the Heavier Armors are still more bulky and difficult to maneuver around, even when made with the Arcanite.
Timebomb is also right in that having the enchantments work the opposite, while not a bad idea, is one that doesn't really do much in the long run. So it saves you 500 gold for an item that you (hopefully) plan to use when you get to the endgame. To be honest, it's a much easier idea to allow a 10% cost reduction for Energy Resistance properties (it's not as much discounted as Dragonhide, and doesn't grant the item immunity) if you're going to go that route.
I'd suggest that if you are going to adjust the ACP, I'd say let it cut the total ACP in half (before any reductions apply). If it's a "stiff rubber," it's not as limiting as an actual metal, but isn't nearly as malleable as cloth materials.
As far as Shields are concerned, they're still valuable for classes who can use it. A Wizard who grabs a Mithril Buckler (or Light Shield if they can pull it off) and enchants it will get a lot more out of it than the Shield spell, and doesn't take up any of their hands needed for spellcasting. It costs money, but the first-level spell slot and saving of action economy for more important spells should be definitely worth it for a(n) (effectively) permanent enhanced Shield that incurs no penalties, even when lacking proficiency.
+1 caster level was probably a bad choice of words. I was thinking more on the increase of save DCs, and possibly add in a Spell Penetration-like effect (like a +1 bonus or such).
The concentration bonus I could see work. I will read over all of the replies more closely in the morning, as it's close to bed time. These suggestions have made me think more on the direction to take this material.
Here's an updated version of my arcanite.
I am not so sure about this, man. This material sort of displaces feats (arcane armor training and mastery) and changes the balance of the game.
How about this:
When arcanite is forged into a masterwork suit of armor, it functions like mithril. However, arcanite is capable of holding a sepcial enchantment that increases its light unobtrusive properties even further, the "Wizard's Friend" enchantment.
Cost: (modify cost to be just a bit more than mithril)
Wizards Friend (equivalent to +1)
The effects of the armor improve to [the stuff you list in your word document]
I don't get how that's game-breaking. Players always go the 0% ASF route. They take some Haramaki which gives +1 constant armor, tops.
There are already materials that displace class features (Mithril and Fighter Armor Training), much less feats, so how it's more unbalanced than say, Mithril, I'll have no idea.
Haha. That was a good one, Timebomb. Spongy is the best word I could come up with for the foam rubber-like feel of the material once it is worked into armor. And I never thought of that connection with Spongebob. Ah well.
I was wondering if I could make any of those extra bonuses (to DC or Concentration) be higher for the heavier bits of armor (thought about +2 to concentration for light, +3 for medium, +4 for heavy), as I don't really see this ever being used in heavy armor, since it doesn't completely remove the ASF. Unless, of course, I decide to have a BBEG-type have it as such. But I just see it being sold.
And I have also never seen anyone take the arcane armor training feats, and if something would make those feats obsolete, that's fine with me.
So, I am guessing the latest rewrite isn't terrible? I based the prices on adamantine.
I don't get how that's game-breaking. Players always go the 0% ASF route. They take some Haramaki which gives +1 constant armor, tops.
There are already materials that displace class features (Mithril and Fighter Armor Training), much less feats, so how it's more unbalanced than say, Mithril, I'll have no idea.
Yeah. But the game already has mithril. We don't need to make super mithril so a wizard can buy his way into medium armor. There should be real costs. I wipe my ass with 11k gold at level 15. If this is going to be a thing then it needs to have a lasting cost to the player.