| showzilla |
well, I've tried my hand at monks and I'm getting some good feed back and I think I'm heading in the right direction...now lets try doing the same for some other classes like the titular rogue.
hit dice: d8
BAB:3/4
fort:bad
ref:good
will:bad
skills:int+8
The rogue's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
proficiency: Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
special:
sneak attack:Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment
Style pool: your good, you look good doing what you do good and you know it. starting at the 1st level a Rogue gains a style pool equal to 1/2 her level(minimum of 1)+ her intelligence bonus. So long as she has at least 1 point in this pool, she may add 1/2 her rogue levels to checks made with a number of skills equal to her intelligence bonus, she may spend a style point and a swift action to change her skill selections. This bonus counts as skill ranks for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes. This allows you to disable magical traps and devices with disable device.
by spending 1 style point, a rogue can make an additional attack at her highest BAB, but only on a full attack. In addition, she may spend 1 style point move 20 feet as a swift action. Finally, a rogue can spend 1 style point to gain a +4 insight bonus on any one skill she has selected from her previous ability for 1 round. A rogue can activated a number of these abilities per round equal to her intelligence bonus as a free action.A rogue can gain additional powers that consume points from her style pool by selecting certain rogue talents.
The style pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive
evasion:At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
rogue talents:As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent. She gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.
Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a rogue's sneak attack. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.
the old list is still here, a rogue may also take a ninja trick as a rogue talent unless it has the same name.....ninja tricks that require a ki pool might be off limits for now just as the new rogue talents that require a style pool would be off limits for the ninja.....tell me if this should drop. style points spent on talents don't count towards your limit.
acrobatic master(ex): spend a style point and gain a +20 to acrobatic checks for 1 round.
whisper(ex): people don't just detect pick pockets with their eyes, those pesky ears can be quit a b%$#+ themsleves. by spending a style point, a rogue may act as if under the effects of a silence spell that only effects her. Her caster level is equal to her rogue levels.
not alone in the dark(ex): a rogue has realized that not being seen is only half the game. A rogue may spend 1 style point as a standard action and gain darkvision out to 60 ft for 1 hour.
now you see me, now you don't,(ex): you know some people who can go unseen if they wish, but you've got a rare gift indeed when it comes to stealth. turn invisible for 1 round per level by spending a style point.
just the wind(ex): sometimes it's easier to make 'em believe they saw nothin than to just not be seen. a rogue may spend 1 style point per target, said target(s) are now subject to a memory lapse with the rogue's levels as the caster level.
ventriloquism(ex): as the ninja trick..yeah, couldn't come up with any better name
wall crawler(ex): as the ninja trick wall climber.
extraordinaire(ex):at 3rd level and every 3rd level thereafter, a rogue gains skill focus on any one skill she has selected for her style bonuses, if a rogue changes her stylized skills, she may also change the skills that benefit from skill focus now.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.
If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
originators and innovators: at 6th level, a rogue's stylish abilities have now begun mixing and shifting quite abit, allowing the rogue to pull off unorthodox feats of...well..style.
a Rogue may select several of the options below, these options require a full round action and an expenditure of 2 style points per option to change once they have been chosen. she may benefit from a number of these options equal to her intelligence bonus.
1. a rogue may select any talent or style ability that costs only 1 style point and instead may use that ability so long as she has any style points.
2. a rogue may select any skill she currently has stylized, anytime she rolls for said skill, if she rolls less than a 10 on the check, treat the roll as if it were a 10.
3. a rogue may select any skill she currently has stylized, should she fail a roll with that skill, she may instantly reroll the check and take the better of the two rolls.
4. a rogue may spend 2 style points and flank an opponent all by herself for a round. If she is flanking with ally, her flanking bonus increases by +2 at level 6 and increases by an additional +1 for every 3 levels there after.
improved uncanny dodge(ex):A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Advanced Talents: At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a rogue can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a rogue talent. She may also choose a master trick from the ninja's list.
again, keep the old list of advanced talents, and please, I need to know if ninja's and rogues can use ki/style abilities
flanking dodge: a rogue gains just as much defense from flanking as she does offense.A rogue with this talent gains a dodge bonus equal to the flanking bonus she would receive.
expert flanker: some rogues are just plain better at fighting dirty. A rogue with this rogue talent may spend 4 style points and is considered 4 levels higher for all sneak attack purposes including damage and determining if you can sneak attack a target.
the man who wasn't there: when a rogue uses now you see me, now you don't, she is considered to be under the effects of greater invisibility. A rogue must have taken now you see me, now you don't before she can take this talent.
paranoid(ex): call it what you will, if it saves your life, it's worth it. a rogue with this rogue talent may add half her rogue levels to the will save to resist divination spells. she may spend 4 style points and "cast" non-detection and detect scrying on herself using her stealth ranks as the caster level.
I see you(ex): a rogue with talent knows when some is trying way too hard to go unnoticed. As a swift action, the rogue can cast see invisibility, using her level as the caster level. Each use of this ability uses up 1 style point.
shadow walker(ex): a rogue with this talent just seems to come and go with cover of darkness, she may spend 2 style point if she is standing in a shadow or darkness of any sort and cast teleport using her rogue levels as her caster level, with the limit that she must teleport into another area of darkness.
flick of the wrist: when repelling an attack, a rogue with this rogue talent may spend 2 style points and use her acrobatics ranks in place of her BAB to determine the number of attacks per round she may repel and is used in place of BAB when rolling to repel an attack.
Master of the underworld: get away from me, I know what happens to gold when your around
At 20th level, a rogue gain access to the purer aspects of what it means to be a rogue, she may choose two of these aspects. She may also spend a full round action and 10 style points to change your selection.
the assassin; a rogue becomes the silent hand of death come to claim a new victim. Each time the rogue deals sneak attack damage, she can choose one of the following three effects: the target can be put to sleep for 1d4 hours, paralyzed for 2d6 rounds, or slain. Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the additional effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Creatures with immunity to sneak attack damage and/or death effects are immune to this effect, though the rogue may spend 5 style points to negate the target's immunity to sneak attacks and/or for a number of rounds equal to her intelligence bonus.
the non-existant(ex): this rogue's existence is a topic of debate even among the divine. A rogue of this aspect can truly vanish, She can, as a standard action, cast greater invisibility on herself. While invisible in this way, she cannot be detected by any means, and not even invisibility purge, see invisibility, and true seeing can reveal her. She uses her rogue level as her caster level for this ability. She can also cast's Modify memory on any creature that has interacted with her, with the spell wiping any memory of her from their memories in such a way as to not draw suspicion, the rogue need not be with in range of the target to erase herself from their minds, though she must do so with in 1 week per point of intelligence she has. The target gets a will save at a DC of 10+1/2 the rogue's level+int bonus to resist the effect, though the target may still only vaguely remember the rogue unless the target beats the DC by an amount equal to rogue's intelligence bonus. Creatures with immunity to mind-affecting effects are immune to the memory wipe, though a rogue may spend 5 style points to remove such an immunity, though such creatures make their will save with a +5 bonus and will remember the rogue with full clarity if they beat the save at all.
the thieves(ex): nothing is forbidden, everything is permissible. a rogue with this aspect is capable over coming any measure to keep her out, she may dispel all magic with a simple disable device check against the DC of the magic or a caster check. The rogue is under a constant true seeing effect that nothing can be hidden from and may "cast" greater scrying when searching for a target of any sort with a constant detect magic/chaos/law/good/evil/read magic/tongues effect. If you have the shadow walker ability, she may expend 5 style points to upgrade the ability to greater teleport and gate.
so? whatcha think? yes, I know...them capstones
| Keydan |
OK, my thoughts:
1) Some of those rogue talents seam a bit overpowered, even for advanced talents. Lowering the power of effects to 1/2 of the rouge level being the caster level, or 1/2 rogue level for effect rounds could fix that, IMHO.
2)"The non-existent" is also a bit OP, tuning invisible all the time, cleansing minds... maybe add a style point cost?
3)Same with "the thieves".
| showzilla |
OK, my thoughts:
1) Some of those rogue talents seam a bit overpowered, even for advanced talents. Lowering the power of effects to 1/2 of the rouge level being the caster level, or 1/2 rogue level for effect rounds could fix that, IMHO.
2)"The non-existent" is also a bit OP, tuning invisible all the time, cleansing minds... maybe add a style point cost?
3)Same with "the thieves".
1) I based some of those on ninja tricks, so I kinda went with that thinking the effects lasted based on caster level...or are you talking about things like expert flanker that I just noticed didn't have a round limit(I meant that one to work for 1 round when the cost was spent)
2. you may be onto something
3. how much should it cost? "the non-existent" might cost 2 points to vanish, 2 points to memory wipe and an additional five to say screw your immunity. the Theives might also require 2 style points to perform everything except the 5 style point for super teleport will stick.
| Keydan |
...how much should it cost?...
I'd use the archaic rule of 4 encounters per day. Calculate how many style points would an average rogue have on the level when he gets that power, and divide that by 4, round down and voila. Such powers are pretty much deal breakers in some occasions, ha having a good price is logical.
| showzilla |
showzilla wrote:I'd use the archaic rule of 4 encounters per day. Calculate how many style points would an average rogue have on the level when he gets that power, and divide that by 4, round down and voila. Such powers are pretty much deal breakers in some occasions, ha having a good price is logical.
...how much should it cost?...
okay, so...10+10(int 30)=20/4=5
it'll cost 5 style points to activate the aspects.
though....is the rogue worth playing now?
| showzilla |
I don't think an average rouge will have 30 INT by level 20 without extensive artifacting. It would probably be 3 or 4 style points to activate them.
Otherwise looks solid. I'd steal the style thingie for an archetype I am working on.
oops, 30 int is for a different scenario run through.
yeah, 4 for the "standard" aspect powers and 5 for the ability to break through immunities.
also, considering Style points have more in common with grit than ki, should you be able to regain style? also, Steal, steal away you damn dirty rogue.