Spellcasting Houserules?


Homebrew and House Rules

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I'm considering two possible houserules, and wanted some feedback on what could be a problem if they are introduced.

1. Caster Levels from multiple sources stack, but you can't gain more than one caster level from a given character level.

Purpose: Make multiclass casters a bit less painful. A Sorcerer 10 Oracle 10 with this houserule still has caster level 20, though he's only got lower level spells in either list.

2. Spell Save DCs are calculated at 10+1/2 Caster Level+Ability Score.

Purpose: Make low level spells less of a waste of paper, and make them something that people might occasionally cast sometime.

Thoughts?

I haven't tested either of these, and haven't given them any in-depth analysis, this is just something I thought of while unable to sleep for the past hour.


Well, if you think casters in general, and Persistant save or suck casters specifically, are very weak right now and need a major power-up this might be an option...

Consider an aasimar sorcerer 4/cleric 1/mystic theurge 6.
With the current rules, it casts 5th level sorcerer spells at CL10 and 4rd level cleric spells at CL 7 (if they spend a trait it becomes CL9). Assuming a wisdom of 24, the highest DC's will be 22 but most in combat will be 20-21 - this is before feats and other special abilities. A persistant Aquaeous Orb will have +10 to penetrate spell resistance and force two DC20 saves, and on the cleric side they can Holy Smite with +7 vs SR for 3d8 and force a save DC21 or blind for one round.

That's kinda good, considering their staying power with all those spell slots. A straight sorcerer would have had about the same arcane options, but no divine.

With your rule, 11th level, casts 5th level sorcerer spells at CL11 and 4th level cleric spells at CL11, with all save DC's being ~22 before feats etc. The PAO will have +11 vs SR and force two DC22 saves and the Holy Smite has deals 5d8 and force a DC22 save.
At that point, from a power perspective, why would you ever go anything but mystic theurge, for every character ever? (And if it's not from a power perspective but flavor, you don't need to house rule since this house rule only affects power).

Making save DC's static over spell levels can work, but they should NOT be equal to the highest DC possible! That's really a MAJOR, MAJOR powerup, that mainly affects high level casters which are already pretty much the most powerful classes around.

If anything, make the save DC something like 10 + 1/3 level + casting stat. That way, the weakest spells will be more useful than they currently are, while the most powerful ones will be slightly less powerful (for the character above, all the spells would have a DC of about 20, so the 1st level spells would get +2 while the 5th level spells would get -2).

Dark Archive

Ilja wrote:
... Bad Idea ...

Hmm. I can see your point. I hadn't considered all of the save boosters available.

Okay. So I don't likely want to combine caster levels, as it would require a hell of an overhaul to make it work out okay.

What about the Static Save DCs. I can see the argument you're making for 10 + 1/3 level + casting stat.

Are you saying class level (Likely), combined caster level, or character level (Less likely)?

I'm not trying to boost powerful options, merely make some of the weaker options viable at mid to high level, and make sure that non-theurge multiclass casters don't become completely pointless.


If you want to buff some of the weaker options, look to some of the martials (fighter, monk, cavalier and rogue especially), not multiclassing full casters.

Multiclassing full casters can end up in very powerful characters - at this point I'd say with the new SLA ruling that probably the most powerful character at high levels you can make is wissorc/cleric/MT (for SADness), or wiz/cleric/MT (for ultimate spell access).

Low level spells are useful at any level due to the good metamagics that are in pathfinder (dazing spell and persistant spell especially). There are builds around spells like Snapdragon Fireworks even.

The theurge exists, is incredibly strong, and as long as it exists any buff towards multiclassed casters will also make it even stronger.

If anything, I'd give bonus CL for character levels that are NOT caster levels, say half, so a fighter 14/wiz 6 has CL13.


I must say that making the saving throw DC based on caster level instead of the spell level is tempting.


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If it ain't broke don't fix it


Just ditch Mystic Theurge if using this rule?


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personally, I always found Magic missile, mage armor, grease, enlarge person, etc useful from levels 1 - 20...

I don't think you need to make lower level spells more attractive, I think you just need to open your options to more than just spells that require save DCs.

A well placed ray on enfeeblement (well, before pathfinders lame save for half) always did the trick no matter the level. Even the new, more lame, version has its merits against any physical character. (mixed with wave of exhaustion)

2nd level spells are a veritable jackpot for buffs. Don't need help there.

3rd level has good damage, good buff, great miscellaneous...

not trying to be facetious... but what exactly needs help?

allow me to make a quote here:

The Saltmarsh 6 wrote:
If it ain't broke don't fix it

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