What would it take to bring the Scout class into pathfinder?
I know in the past that it was said the scout class was underpowered.
Would any of these changes be appropriate/balanced.
- Full BAB
- an ability to 10ft step (instead of 5ft step)
- instead of the listed bonus feats, to give them access to a ranger combat style.
- Good Fort/Ref save
I figured you could add the ability to 10ft step around 5th or 10th level which would allow a scout to get their extra dmg/ac on a full attack.
Vital Strike would be nice but i dont think it would add much because the skirmisher wont be using a high base damage weapon.
I still really like the idea of the ranger combat style feats being granted instead of the listed feats.
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The class skill rules change burns them just as bad as it did to Rogues.
The horrific tumble nerf makes the class, based entirely upon moving around all the time completely unplayable in combat.
If you let them 10 ft step, I guess Scout archers could be viable, but melee scout would still be worthless. I'd suggest just letting them auto-succeed on tumble as a class feature. There's seriously a dozen+ ways for spellcasters to do it via class features or spells, why not the class literally devoted to being mobile?
I tried to make a PF Scout here, but it still feels underpowered. At least it's a little better than the PF Rogue...
Well one thing you could do would be to give them Full Class Level to Acrobatics checks when made to tumble. That could help.
Another thing I was thinking would be to give them 1/2 scout level (min +1) to Perception/Stealth.
Streamofthesky, I actually like your version alot. if you think its still under-powered how much would giving it full BAB increase its power?
I would probably knock it down to 4 skill points. Maybe 6 so its on the same level as a Ranger.
Maybe make the Scout an Alternate Class Ranger.
I guess full BAB would help. I put a lot of class features much higher level than I would have liked to just to avoid making it too "dip friendly," and even still the higher levels seem kind of underwhelming and barren.
I definitely disagree with 4 + Int skill points. It's a skilled, rogue-like class, and the underpowered 3.5 version got 8 + int. Why on earth would you drop it down so far? I guess if you're doing full BAB and don't like that combined w/ high skill points, I could see dropping it to 6 like Ranger. But 4 is too extreme. Especially since the class will want Dex, Str, Con, and Wis and likely won't be able to afford a high int (like ranger).
Glad you like my version, though. And I did in fact give them +1/2 level to Perception and Stealth, along w/ Acrobatics and Survival. And Disable Device, via Trapfinding, of course. But I guess you posted that first one before checking out my Scout. :)
The more I think on it. I think setting the scout up as an alt class ranger would work out great!
I like the saves/bab/skills. You could get Skirmish damage instead of Favored Enemy and the Skirmish Dodge instead of Favored Terrain. It would take moving some stuff around but I think that using your version as a model it would/could work. I like your abilites but I think I will swap out Wear Down with an ability to 10ft step. Also I think I will move HiPS down.
Would it be under/overpowered to allow the Scout to tumble to move 10ft as a 5ft step at lvl 10? They would still need an awesome acrobatics to beat CMD but it opens up more opportunities for movement and full attacking.
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if you are looking for a Pathfinder class that is very much like the scout, may I suggest the Spell-less Ranger from Kobold Press? You can check the class out in its own New Paths PDF or, even better yet, in the brand new New Paths Compendium!
The New Paths Compendium collects all the New Paths classes into a brand new print/pdf book, along with new classes like the Theurge and the Savant, with a completely new layout and organization - the classes themselves are all together in a Classes chapter, all the archetypes and spells get their own chapters, as do all the feats (close to 100 of 'em!)
There's also the brand-new spell-less ranger variant class, the skin-changer! That's right, instead of a favored enemy and animal companion, the skin-changer can shapeshift into animal form (using a specialized form of wild shape called animal shape) right out of the gate at 1st level.
Fans of the scout class (and I include myself in that group) will find a lot to like in the Spell-less Ranger :)
It would take moving some stuff around but I think that using your version as a model it would/could work. I like your abilites but I think I will swap out Wear Down with an ability to 10ft step. Also I think I will move HiPS down.
Do as you like, glad you got some inspiration from my version at least. IMO, stuff is pushed back too far in general currently as it is, and HiPS is already pretty high level. (Unless "down" means earlier...I really can't tell what you meant)
Wear Down is kind of a weak ability, I put it in more for the flavor, to crudely represent Mongolian feigned retreat tactics to tire their foes before finishing them off (but scaling it down to a single character and happening much faster, so it can actually be used in the game), I get it if you don't like it. Note that Outlast would also need to be replaced if you're getting rid of Wear Down. Or you could just bundle them together. *shrug*
Would it be under/overpowered to allow the Scout to tumble to move 10ft as a 5ft step at lvl 10? They would still need an awesome acrobatics to beat CMD but it opens up more opportunities for movement and full attacking.
Definitely not overpowered as a feature of the class.
I know in the past that it was said the scout class was underpowered.
What? No! It plays fine as-is. We had a dwarf scout in my 1st to 20th level campaign. By the high teens, that round was either skirmishing or rapid shotting every round, just drilling bad guys with damage. It felt a little slow under 3.5 getting feats if you wanted to be a dedicated archer, but that's not even a problem in Pathfinder.
We also had another dwarf fighter that dipped into scout to become a mobile, charging, acrobatic waraxe-wielding terror.