My barbarian the drug addict.

[broxolm]

Hello all.

So I just picked up "Adventurers Armory" (I'm told it's also in "Ultimate Equipment") and I noticed an item in the alchemical herb section called,

Allnight 75 gp, -- eliminates fatigue for 8 hours and -2 skill checks, exhausted after.

My jaw dropped. Seriously? A 75gp item that makes my barbarian immune to fatigue for 8 hours? Basically an entire game session? It's essentially providing the same effects as the 17th level barbarian "Tireless Rage Ability". I thought there had to be no way this was PFS legal, but after checking the additional resources section, all items from "Adventurers Armory" is legal. I checked the PFS guide and all mundane alchemical items are listed as being always available. Even if it was not always available, anyone with 5 fame could buy it from their faction.

So now my half Orc barbarian is selling his body on the streets for herbs. Great....wonderful. My DM doesn't seem to care how my barbarian is using his lesser elemental rage power to do extra damage every round instead of once a rage and everyone in the party is worried by the barbarians sudden nervous twitching.

I can foresee this herb going on prohibition from PFS very soon but until then, just say NO!

[ubiquitous]

The line "It eliminates the effects of fatigue for the next 8 hours" doesn't say that it stops you from being fatigued, or that it removes the state of being fatigued, all it does it remove the small penalties that go along with it (-2str/-2dex).

[broxolm]

ubiquitous wrote:

The line "It eliminates the effects of fatigue for the next 8 hours" doesn't say that it stops you from being fatigued, or that it removes the state of being fatigued, all it does it remove the small penalties that go along with it (-2str/-2dex).

Is that the official PFS ruling on the herbs effects vs re-activating a /Rage action? I looked pretty hard but didn't find anything explicit. So you are saying a barbarian under the effects of Allnight still has the fatigued status but not the penalties? Such as if there are 2 separate yet equal conditional modifiers countering each other?

I would agree with that if we were talking about enhancement bonuses versus conditional penalties such as a masterwork weapons (+1 attack) and a buckler (-1 attack). Even though there is no net penalty or bonus, both the buckler and masterwork quality coexist.

However, the Allnight is not a question of enhancement modifiers. It is a question of the condition itself, modifiers or not. For example, consider the Sleep Spell. It applies the Unconscious Condition to a creature that fails a Will Save. That condition is completely removed once something acts on the creature such as death or being awoken. A sleeping creature who is awoken (like a fatigued barbarian) loses his unconscious condition completely (like with the Allnight). The formerly sleeping creature does not retain a sleeping condition minus a new "awake" condition because unlike enhancement modifiers, conditions are mutually exclusive. Thus a Barbarian who has taken the herb Allnight is not fatigued.

I think Allnight is broken as it allows cheap use of a class ability that would otherwise require 17 levels to attain and allows for exploiting of some rage powers. But unless Allnight becomes explicitly banned or nerfed, I consider it a legal way to overcome fatigue and re-Rage multiple times per encounter.

[ubiquitous]

broxolm wrote:

Is that the official PFS ruling on the herbs effects vs re-activating a /Rage action?

Not at all. I'm merely pointing out that it uses different language from other fatigue-removing abilities (Paladin Mercy: "the target is no longer fatigued" or Restoration: "eliminates any fatigue or exhaustion").

broxolm wrote:

So you are saying a barbarian under the effects of Allnight still has the fatigued status but not the penalties?

Exactly. There are a number of abilities in the game that suppress negative effects without removing them. Of course, you might consider this the intention of the rules, and not the direct meaning. I just wanted to show that there's a way of reading the item which relegates it into the "sometimes useful, maybe" basket, instead of the "totally broken" one.

broxolm wrote:

I think Allnight is broken as it allows cheap use of a class ability that would otherwise require 17 levels to attain and allows for exploiting of some rage powers. But unless Allnight becomes explicitly banned or nerfed, I consider it a legal way to overcome fatigue and re-Rage multiple times per encounter.

Certainly, if you use your interpretation of the rules it is completely too powerful. A 75gp consumable replicating the effects of a 17th level Barbarian class ability, or a 5th level Oracle ability? That does seem a little too good. I suggest - since you consider this broken - that you avoid using it for the time being.

[Sitri]

Ubiquitous is right, I looked into this while back when building a barbarian. However, the Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon (Ioun Stone) only cost 8k and enables rage cycling and Endurance for the price of sickness. There is a barbarian rage power that can get rid of the sickness for you also.

[verdigris]

Hi broxolm, unless it is ruled otherwise by someone else, you should probably expect table variation. I will say that the way I will rule it, and will advise my GMs to rule on it, is it does not allow the rage cycling that your barbarian may be hoping it does.

The developers tend to be very careful with wording and the wording on allnight does not say it removes the condition, only the effects thereof.