Blessing of Desna any good?

[Mechalibur]

So normally when I acquire a particular god's blessing, I usually replace one of the basic Blessing of the Gods that starts in my deck. It seems like a solid option for the most part, especially if it's a check I need help on (Blessing of Calistria can help a d8 dex character like Seoni or Valeros beat those pesky barriers), or one that will come up reliably (Blessing of Gorum for a weapon user, or Blessing of Pharasma for a caster).

Blessing of the Gods can be pretty versatile with its ability to copy, but for the most part it's too unpredictable. That being said, I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario where you would ever want the Blessing of Desna in your deck even over the basic ones.

Blessing of Desna allows a character to add 2 extra dice to any check involving a recharge, so this would come up more frequently for casters (especially Ezren if it weren't for the fact that he has no blessings), or Merisiel, who can recharge many items. When would you ever want to use this over the extra explore, or just adding a single die to your checks? Even if the blessing ends up helping, you still discarded a card just to put a single one back at the bottom of your deck. Unless you only have a few cards that you really really need, and you can't reliably recharge them. Is that ever the case though? Has anyone had any success with this blessing, or is it better to keep in the box?

[Nathaniel Gousset]

They are quite useless... as any blessing that help out of combat Dex or Int test would be better for Merisiel/Ezren AND provide the same bonus to recharge.

[Eryx_UK]

Maybe later on we will get spells with high recharge numbers and then it will be worthwhile.

[Nathaniel Gousset]

Even with spell with a large recharge number it will always be useless, simply because you can have another blessing that do provide +2 Dice for the recharge and any other non-combat skill check with the same attribute.

Why use a Blessing of Desna when you could use a standard blessing of Intelligence that will help for the Recharge Arcane Skill roll and any other Intelligence skill roll ?

[Reptilian]

Yep, it's a pretty sucky blessing, but it could, arguably, still be better to have then a BotG, since you can possibly recharge it rather then discard it if it matches the current card of the blessing deck.

[Mechalibur]

You could still occasionally recharge it, yes, but I think the versatility of the BotG being able to copy the top card is superior.

[Flat the Impaler]

Yes, one of the other blessings may be more useful if all of your recharge attempts use the same skill, but Desna may be more useful if you recharge using different skills (remember that items can recharge too, not just spells).

Also, if you want to recharge something for which you don't have the appropriate subskill (the untrained 1d4 is not associated with any base attribute/skill), the versatility of Desna comes from not being tied to a skill; none of the other blessings can give you that extra die in these cases. For example, if Valeros wants to recharge a Wand of Force Missile, 1d4 (Arcane, untrained) + 2d4 (Desna) beats the 1d4+1d4 when using any other blessing.

[Mechalibur]

Yeah, but if Valeros is discarding a blessing to recharge a wand of force missile, then something probably went very very wrong.

[Nathaniel Gousset]

Mechalibur wrote:

Yeah, but if Valeros is discarding a blessing to recharge a wand of force missile, then something probably went very very wrong.

Agreed, in fact if Valeros is possessing a wand of force missile things are already pretty awkward.

And justifying this blessing on the Valeros 3 cards blessing choice, just to provide a second D4 on a recharge test above the extra dice provided by any other blessing is a pretty good argument as why this blessing is useless.

The only advantage of Dresna is to help OTHER people with their recharge, and that is usually a waste of a perfectly good blessing. (especially as the 2nd dice is often either just a tiny bit less useless or total overkill).

[Flat the Impaler]

The Valeros/Wand of Missile example was only an example; it was the first item I pulled from the box with a Recharge power, and Valeros was a prime example of a character not having a particular skill. That said, WoM is a useful item in anyone's hands, even if they can't recharge it reliably (yes, it may be more reliable in someone else's, but you're assuming a well-rounded party, or a party at all).

Would it be less "awkward" had I used Thieves Tools as my example, which can be recharged with a Disable skill (another skill Valeros does not have)?

You're also glossing over the point I made about mixed skills. If you have items in your deck that are useful to recharge, and they use different base skills, then Desna is a great choice over hoping you have the right blessing in your hand when you need it.

Bottom line, not every card is going to fit everyone's style of play, and no card is going to be universally useful. If you don't like Desna, don't use it. All I'm saying is that it has a use (and is, by very definition, not useless). If you object to "wasting" a blessing on a recharge check, then there's probably nothing I or anyone else can say to change your mind anyway.

[Nathaniel Gousset]

I think you miss my point.

I was partly joking about Valeros and the WoM, but it is about the same with the Basic Thieves Tools he dont need either as Mattock is better for him ;)

My point is that the blessing of Desna is extra-limited and that his bonus only apply to recharge roll and only for 1 single dice more than another blessing (and especially a D4).

I now see where you are going as indeed Valeros can't use a Calistrian (splg?) to help recharge the toolkit. Does it make Desna more usefull ? not in my book.

Having 1 blessing in your deck just to be able to recharge 1 item is playing statistics, odds that you wont have both avaliable together are rather large.

To be honest between Desna and a Blessing of Gods I will possibly consider taking the Desna... then maybe not. Between Desna and any other blessing I will ALWAYS favor the other blessing. That is why I call it useless, as in :"Always picked last after anything else up to the point it realy doesn't matter what its actual use really is".

[Mechalibur]

Flat the Impaler wrote:

Would it be less "awkward" had I used Thieves Tools as my example, which can be recharged with a Disable skill (another skill Valeros does not have)?

Not really. I don't think it particularly works any better for skills the character doesn't have. Then you're discarding a card to make the recharge roll a total of 3d4, which still isn't very good. I can't think of any situation where I would rather do that instead of discarding a blessing to explore, or add 1 die to any check.

[Bidmaron]

Flat may have a different style of playing. I think the only blessing besides BoG that I've ever taken is the one (whatever it is) that lets you add 2 dice to a combat dexterity check and then only for Harsk. I find that our style of playing we use about half our blessings for exploration and the other to guarantee combat success.

[Flat the Impaler]

You're getting hung up on my (perhaps overly-specific) examples and missing my point.

All I'm saying is that has its uses, and that there is a certain versatility in not being tied to a particular skill (think Lamashtu vs Gurum/Erastil/Pharasma).

Simple test: Do you recharge cards?
->Yes: Desna is useful to you.
-> No: Does anyone else in your group recharge cards?
---> No: Desna is a poor choice for you.
---> Yes: Desna is useful to you.

Nowhere do I say Desna is absolutely more or less useful than any other blessing; it's up to how you value that usefulness of this card compared to the others.

Ultimately, I refer to my previous comment:

Flat the Impaler wrote:

If you object to "wasting" a blessing on a recharge check, then there's probably nothing I or anyone else can say to change your mind anyway.

[Mechalibur]

Mm, but all we have to work with are specific cards. If none of them are worth using a blessing to recharge, then the blessing isn't worth playing.

What I'm saying is even when you have a bunch of recharge cards, the blessing still isn't worth it in any conceivable situation.

[Nathaniel Gousset]

I understand what you are trying to say Flat.

We disagree on what is "usefull". Something having a use to you in a very small effect and rare circonstance doesn't qualify as usefull to me, especially while it take the place of something that is used often and with a larger effect.

We will never agree.