Goblin Squad Member
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Note: I'm talking about the current definition of Harvesting, which is going around and hitting individual resources nodes that produce a small number of crafting resources like wood or iron.
Please allow the yield to be increased by having multiple characters involved.
I believe this falls under "maximizing meaningful human interaction" because it creates an incentive for players to stay together while roaming around looking for harvesting nodes, rather than splitting off by themselves. I believe it's balanced because of the nature of harvesting in PFO where each resource pulled from a hex reduces that hex's capacity to provide more of that resource.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How would you propose an increased yield? Are you asking for a simple flat increase to the amount each harvester gains, based on how many other harvesters are in his group? Or were you thinking of something else?
I personally see small group harvesting as already being incentivized, due to the nature of the open PvP sandbox game and the gathering nodes.
1. As I'm sure you're aware, harvesting as a group allows the players to watch each other's backs and be better prepared for any threat which may come their way, in the form of PvP attacks or PvE mobs gathered around nodes (or maybe wandering PvE mobs, if those are a thing). This will reduce the risk to each individual as they harvest, and thus incentivize grouping.
2. Gathering nodes seem to incentivize groups to send all their harvesters to the same general area. This is because it is easier to prepare for one or more gathering operations if you know where you'll be going. Furthermore it would be more beneficial for multiple gathering operations to be located nearer to each other than farther apart; they could assist one another when in danger, and could 'carpool' to deliver all their gathered resources in one large, much-better-defended caravan. It's the same "watch each others' backs" point, just on a larger scale.
These are the immediate reasons I could see an individual harvester or a group of harvesters wanting to work in the same area, rather than separate. However, I do see the strong counter argument that working separately could lead to a higher total purity of resources if the harvesters gather in different hexes. I don't feel that the better encumbrance efficiency would be worth the increased risk (and potential for losing out on gathering nodes) of harvesting solo, but that's just conjecture on my part.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally see small group harvesting as already being incentivized, due to the nature of the open PvP sandbox game and the gathering nodes.
1. As I'm sure you're aware, harvesting as a group allows the players to watch each other's backs and be better prepared for any threat which may come their way, in the form of PvP attacks or PvE mobs gathered around nodes (or maybe wandering PvE mobs, if those are a thing). This will reduce the risk to each individual as they harvest, and thus incentivize grouping.
These same incentives exist in DarkFall, yet I'm confident that the vast majority of the harvesting in that game is done solo.
How would you propose an increased yield?
I imagine the devs who are designing the standard yield would be better equipped to design the increased yield, but...
Ideally, each character in the group would receive the same amount of resources they would have received if they'd been solo. Because this depletes the hex's Resource Pool, I don't think it would be unbalancing.
If that's not practical, diminishing returns can be used. I probably wouldn't complain if each additional harvester increased the yield by their reciprocal - that is, if the 2nd harvester added 1/2 standard yield, the 3rd added 1/3 standard yield, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the idea of giving grouping bonus to harvesting has value. In my mind the bonus should be substantial enough that it's worth doing, but not so substantial that it makes solo harvesting completely useless. In my mind I'm thinking having a full 50-person company (or party?) harvesting in a single hex might gain a bonus of 50-100% to each person's yield?
Using such a carrot would encourage harvesters to group even when there is substantial security and no huge risk of being attacked in PvP. Grouping = interaction, chat, and growing social bonds that encourage people to stay in the game. If the carrot applies to harvesting parties, parties would also be encouraged to invite in new people ("hey - need something to do? We're harvesting wood and can use 5 more people in the NW hex to max our bonuses.")
There are plenty of sticks (mostly the threat of PvP) to encourage people to harvest in the same area. It doesn't necessarily encourage them to group into parties or harvest by company. A carrot like increased yields might better encourage grouping.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And grouping with increased incentives is the key.
In Darkfall it would be better for groups to work together at harvesting. It simply isn't done there on any visible scale. Possibly because large groups attract responses from those starving for PVP. Possibly because there are so many skills (all requiring intensive grind) that solo play is the net result of the design.
The few times that Goblin Squad has grouped and gathered in the same vicinity have been great fun and the added safety is a great bonus. We are not the norm in Darkfall, however.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, thanks for the extra info about Darkfall's gathering; as I said in another thread, I quit it pretty quickly, so I didn't get much exposure to the norms of behavior in it.
If the advantages I listed are thought of as too little to incentivize grouping, I'm all for adding on another mechanical bonus. EDIT: Just want to make these points known, as a bit of "devil's advocacy".
@Nihimon, are you talking about harvesting from the same node? I don't see that as being significantly different from harvesting from several nearby nodes, personally. Though I suppose it could be, given big enough groups...
I don't think nodes in PfO will last as long as the ones in Darkfall do (something to the tune of 10 minutes per node, give or take some minutes for skill). The relevant blog post said "Each harvest node is only good for a very few items before it gets used up and you have to move on.", so I don't expect it to be several minutes per node; rather I expect the harvesters to be moving rather frequently. This would make gathering from the same node a bit of a non-issue.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I read "very few items" as less than ten, maybe five or less, maybe 3-5.
I read Nihimon's bit as suggesting multiple harvesters on one node. While my bit was addressing multiple harvesters within a hex, multiple gatherers on one node has its benefits, too.
Only the first harvester might trigger a check for a lode/gusher. So more harvesters on one node means they aren't making checks on other nodes; other than that it's as if they are mining multiple nodes in the same hex. If the resource counter is so low that there are very few nodes - well, it's about empty and they'll just draw it down together.
There might be something more satisfying about working a shared resource. Think of three miners mining three nodes, or three miners mining one node. I think the latter case might just appeal more to crafter/gatherers, even without a lot of additional reward. And shared work = interaction, social ties, etc, etc.
