Because taking another dollar from someone making two dollars doesn't get you anywhere?
My economics class called it the Ability To Pay principle.
I call it the Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is principle. You want others who you envy to pay more, then you lead the way and pony up first. Lead by example.
But, that would require initiative, and the slothful don't have initiative. The greedy don't have the ability, and the arrogant don't have the discipline.
No, punish those who have achieved more that you through faceless "government." It makes you feel better and requires no real effort on your part.
I understand completely. I have more respect for that guy who tried to mug me years ago. At least he had to do the mugging himself.
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Because taking another dollar from someone making two dollars doesn't get you anywhere?
My economics class called it the Ability To Pay principle.
I call it the Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is principle. You want others who you envy to pay more, then you lead the way and pony up first. Lead by example.
I contribute to a national health system that cares for everyone in my country.
Feel free to follow my lead!
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I call it the Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is principle. You want others who you envy to pay more, then you lead the way and pony up first. Lead by example.
So how much more will you expect others to pay if I lead the way? Supposing I voluntarily increase my contribution by 50%.
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And its best if we take those people who have achieved more than you have and bring them down to your level. Because that's "fair." I see.
I just want the country to work better. I want other people to get to the same place that I've been able to reach. Or at least not fall through the cracks.
You seem to be under the misconception that those who "have achieved more than you" have all done so entirely by their own lonesome.
Are you willing to admit that you have absolutely no idea how economy and trade works?
Pile on your envy of those who have earned more than you.
"You're just jealous because you're poor," is basically the entirety of your argument's moral foundation?
Be nice, you know what he meant. Bet the leases aren't decades long, though.
That was my point. Leases tend not to last so long as to tie a business's operations to one geographic location in the long term. There are far more nightmarish problems that businesses considering moving to another state need to contend with, such as organizing the upheaval and relocation of their most critical employees, many/most of whom probably like where they live. Many companies considering moving operations do so gradually, by opening and maintaining offices in both states and slowly migrating or hiring employees in a manageable fashion.
I call it the Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is principle.
This is probably why you're not teaching any economics lectures.
Scott, I'm well versed in economics. I apparently understand the laws of supply and demand better than you.
Once again, you make assumptions about posters. Congratulations. You've added arrogance to greed, sloth, and envy.
No doubt you'll want to punish me because I'm smarter than you and pointing out your failures, which would throw in wrath.
Let the evil flow. Don't worry, I won't think less of you for it.
So how much more will you expect others to pay if I lead the way? Supposing I voluntarily increase my contribution by 50%.
** spoiler omitted **
If you led the way, then I'd applaud your principles. But you didn't. Neither did any of the people who rallied for the ACA, nor any of the people who voted for it, and not the guy who signed the bill into law.
That alone tells you something, if you took the time to listen.
You seem to be under the misconception that those who "have achieved more than you" have all done so entirely by their own lonesome.
Are you willing to admit that you have absolutely no idea how economy and trade works?
Ah, the "You didn't build that" example.
No, I did build that, and lots of people like you stood on the sidelines and make me work even harder.
I built it in spite of you, not because of you.
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Scott, I'm well versed in economics. I apparently understand the laws of supply and demand better than you.
Do you?
Because if you did, the first thing you'd know - the very first thing you'd know - is that traditional law of supply and demand doesn't apply to healthcare!
I'll give you a few minutes to go ask Google why that is.
Once again, you make assumptions about posters. Congratulations. You've added arrogance to greed, sloth, and envy.
No doubt you'll want to punish me because I'm smarter than you and pointing out your failures, which would throw in wrath.
Wow at this point I'm like third in line to rule ancient Thassilon!
Yes, Scott, supply and demand do apply to health care.
Our insurance model muddied the waters, but hospitals don't get built in regions without a good number of patients to pay the bills. The demand has to exist for there to be a supply.
I know you don't like it, but that doesn't mean the facts are on your side.
Every service and product follow the laws of supply and demand. But I'm sure you're going to lecture me on how health care is different. Feel free. But you'd be what is known as "wrong."
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You seem to be under the misconception that those who "have achieved more than you" have all done so entirely by their own lonesome.
Are you willing to admit that you have absolutely no idea how economy and trade works?Ah, the "You didn't build that" example.
No, I did build that, and lots of people like you stood on the sidelines and make me work even harder.
I built it in spite of you, not because of you.
Really? You built your own roads, set up your own energy system, provided your own security force, funded the research to prove that your product was safe for use/consumption, operated on yourself and your employees (if you have any), fielded your own fire brigade, just in case something should happen, learned to read, write, calculate and taught yourself all the way up through high school/college, built your own mode of transportation etc.?
If that's the case, I'm impressed. If not, you really didn't build it.Neither did you ensure that your product could be bought by others.
You prospered on the backs of all the people who came before you. Which is great for you. All people are asking is for you to help provide that same opportunity for those who come after you.
Stop the bumper sticker rhetoric and open your eyes to how the real world works.
No doubt you'll want to punish me because I'm smarter than you and pointing out your failures, which would throw in wrath.
To prove the first point you would actually have to do the second one... so far it's not looking too good for you.
YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!
Try saying it in caps, it seems to help.
To prove the first point you would actually have to do the second one... so far it's not looking too good for you.
Scott doesn't understand economics. I do.
Again, if you just put caps-lock on, it makes what you're saying all the more important-sounding.
Okay. So are you going to answer the hypothetical question?
Sure. As soon as you pay my last doctor's bill. It's sitting on my counter right now. $745.
No? Color me shocked.
And on that happy note, I'm off to bed. Unlike some people, I actually need to produce something in order to pay my bills. The ground doesn't plow itself, the gas doesn't magically appear in my car's tank, and my kids won't have much of a chance at paying for their future college careers with Hope and Change.
Strangely enough, TriOmegaZero, that money didn't magically appear in my account. Maybe wishing harder? Or typing in all caps.
You aren't providing any evidence to back up your assertions, Doug. Why that is I'm sure most other people can deduct rather easily.
In that case it's quite clear that you're only trolling.
Until you can provide said evidence or even just an alternative to the health care question, which has been asked several times now, I think people should ignore your ranting and raving.
Once again, you make assumptions about posters. Congratulations.
Oh how deliciously ironic that statement is given that you've accused people of being envious of the rich and that you're apparently the only one who produces things around here, unlike "some people."
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Strangely enough, TriOmegaZero, that money didn't magically appear in my account. Maybe wishing harder? Or typing in all caps.
I'm not paying you real money for a hypothetical answer. Your wisdom doesn't have that kind of value.
Besides, you didn't offer an account number to send it to.
Guys...don't feed the troll. Seriously.
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*allows single tear to roll down Successful Troll's cheek*
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YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!
Try saying it in caps, it seems to help.
Your response to their argument is to parody an extreme version of them.
That is not intelligent discussion. That is a farce.
There are benefits to society if you put effort into helping the less fortunate.
My partner is finished her qualifications for teaching this year.
On the day that she recieved the paperword required to start teaching she got sick.
Fevers, joint pain, rash and fatigue.
3 weeks, two hospital stays later she was diagnosed and started treatment.
Only now, 5 months later, after regular visits to a specialist (who charges $250 a consultation), countless blood tests to moniter her condition, 3 different forms of medication and a seperate specialist when her white blood cells approached zero, is she fit to start work.
Thankfully we live in Australia, where Medicare covered most of that.
Now our area is gaining a great teacher who gives a damn about her students and is going to be a positive influence on soany young minds.
Yes, Scott, supply and demand do apply to health care.
Well now I know I can safely disregard everything you have to say on the topic.
Every service and product follow the laws of supply and demand.
No, they don't. It may surprise you that there are other markets that do not adhere to strict supply and demand either! Housing, for instance! I wonder if you can think of some of the reasons this might be the case!
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Yes, Scott, supply and demand do apply to health care.
Our insurance model muddied the waters, but hospitals don't get built in regions without a good number of patients to pay the bills. The demand has to exist for there to be a supply.
Supply and demand is something taught on the very first day of a Macroeconomics course.
And you got it wrong. You have a gross misapprehension as to the use of those terms. But it's okay, EVERYONE misuses "supply and demand".
It's clear you THINK you know an awful lot about economics, but when put to the test, all you can do is parrot commonly held misunderstandings.
As the counterexample, see TOZ. He used the right terminology. Health insurance is an INCREDIBLY inelastic good, especially for those who already have a condition and are covered.
One of the goals of the ACA was to relieve that inelasticity by establishing competition of perfect information, and forcing insurance companies to accept applicants with pre-existing conditions.
But, whatever, your contempt for the poor is only outmatched by your contempt for the educated, the well-tempered, and the kind.
Guys...don't feed the troll. Seriously.
I think this is a troll that ought to be fed, if only because he's probably not actually trolling, but rather actually believes the things that he's saying. To boot, his reasoning is typical of a lot of conservative ideology, so it deserves to be exposed and addressed. That he's done us the favor of opening those arguments up to criticism is really something we ought to be grateful for.
In other words, feed the troll a strict diet of strong counterarguments. He's allergic.
And on that happy note, I'm off to bed. Unlike some people, I actually need to produce something in order to pay my bills. The ground doesn't plow itself, the gas doesn't magically appear in my car's tank, and my kids won't have much of a chance at paying for their future college careers with Hope and Change.
So bitter.
Yes, Scott, supply and demand do apply to health care.
Our insurance model muddied the waters, but hospitals don't get built in regions without a good number of patients to pay the bills. The demand has to exist for there to be a supply.
then what did they do before the hospitals got built? Traveled to the nearest one? Called a doctor to do a house call? I actually see where you are coming from, to an extent I think, but it begs the question of who built the first hospital? Chicken or the egg scenario in many ways. Where we live did not always have the population it did, and health care is one of those things that there is always going to be a demand for. Otherwise a lot of us wouldn't be here. Your perspective makes some sense, but doesn't work very well in this particular area- someone had to build that first hospital and there had to be health options before that hospital came along.
Given the amount of sarcasm and personal sniping going on here, I think this discussion has outlived its ability to be civil. Locked.