Is everyone here?
*looks around*
Good.
As implied by the title, this thread is pretty ambitious.
I checked throughout this site, d20pfsrd, and all my source books, and I just can't seem to find in depth rules about improvised weapons. These are the rules of improvised weapon as quoted from the Core Rulebook:
"Improvised Weapons
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet." pg. 144
Now, these are serviceable, but it results in improvised weapons being rather difficult, as it requires the GM to make many rulings on the fly. For something like PFS, the lack of solidity is usually unacceptable or annoying, while it can slow a regular game down significantly. My intention of this thread will be for players and GMs to sit and talk about ideas they have for improvised weapon rules, listing improvised objects and their properties, or fleshing out ideas for rules in unconventional situations(*some examples being trying to use only part of an object as an improvised weapon, E.G a table leg that is still attached to the table, or using really large item, or using an alchemists fire as an improvised melee weapon by smashing it on someones face).
Please take a quick look at these homebrew rules on this website. Personally, I think they need a lot of work, and they will need to be adapted to pathfinder, but they are a good starting point. They seem to be very illogical at some points, such as saying a metal dumpster and a wooden desk are equivalent, or that a fire extinguisher is equivalent to a bottle, and that the fire extinguisher does less damage than a garbage can lid.
Some issues that should be addresses:
-Items properties, such as damage, size, type(B,S,P), etc, for specific items(broken bottles, tree branches, bar stools, corpses, tables, rocks, debris, 2 by 4s, etc etc ect)
-Weapon fragility(The link above states: "Unlike real weapons, improvised weapons are not designed to absorb damage. They tend to shatter, bend, crumple, or fall apart after a few blows. An improvised weapon has a 50% chance of breaking each time it deals damage or, in the case of thrown objects, strikes a surface, such as a wall, or an object larger than itself." This rule seems good but some of you may think of a better one. We could also consider the fragile weapon quality from the Ultimate Combat.)
-Unusual situations.(*see above)
-Other rules or foreseeable problems
-How improvised weapons should relate to using weapons of a different size category(such as a medium sized creature using a large sized item), such as stacking penalties, and more.
The Core Rulebook rules liken improvised weapons to real weapons, so perhaps we can have lists that have the real weapons and their improvised counterparts, such as:
-Longsword: table leg, large tree branch,
-Club: chair, bar stool,
etc etc.
Optional, flavorful issues that can be addressed:
-Specific item uses, such as a rope having the trip or disarm weapon feature.
-Improvised weapon playing a role in other rules, such as specific items giving bonuses on dirty trick attempts (such as a rope giving +2 to entangle, a cup of hot coffee giving +2 to blind, etc. Those examples are pretty generous, though.)
Ideas are awesome, but please, if you can, also try to contribute to the organization of these ideas in the thread. Having a bunch of ideas is great, but we should be able to agree on which ideas would be best, and which ones would be good to use as if they were an actual ruling, and have some resemblance of organization so the thread can actually be easily used as a source.
Remember, have fun! The idea of improvised weapons are kind of a silly mechanic anyway, so funny or zany ideas are more than welcome. (Body Bludgeon rage power comes to mind)
If nothing else, this can be a place that GMs can check to help them make their improvised weapon rulings.
I was thinking of starting with a broken bottle being a dagger sized weapon for a medium creature.
Broken bottle, medium sized weapon; 1D4 piercing damage, 50% of being destroyed with each hit. Range increment 10ft.
Rocks:
-Sling Bullet sized rock: medium sized weapon; 1D3 bludgeoning damage, range increment 10ft., -1 to attacks when used with a sling
-Fist sized rock: medium weapon; 1D4 bludgeoning damage, range increment 10ft.
-1.5ft diameter rock: medium sized, two handed weapon; 1D6 bludgeoning damage, range increment 10ft.
(Alternatively large sized one-handed weapon)
-3ft. diameter rock: Large size, two-handed weapon; 1D10 bludgeoning damage, range increment 10ft.
(Alternatively huge size one-handed weapon)
-4-5ft. diameter rock: Huge sized, two-handed weapon; 2D6 bludgeoning damage, range increment 10ft.
Seriously? Nothing?
Maybe it's the "and extensive" that killed this one...
Its not dead yet; I found this page just now. :)
I played through most of a long campaign as a Cad archetype and I think I must have used at least 50-60 different things as weapons, most notably I skewered a Kobold with another Kobold.
The idea that improvised weapons would be more prone to breaking is something that I agree sort of, but a 50% chance is way to high. Players would escape from prisons easily if they could break their manacles on the prison door (I'm not saying that all players would do that; I'm just saying I would).
Giving them the fragile quality works fine but look out for the feat that let's you break a weapon in order to deal bleed damage. Potent stuff when you have an infinite supply of weapons. :)
What about giving all improvised weapons the Fragile quality? That covers them being easily breakable and show the damage effecting their intended purpose as well as the effect on them being used as weapons due to the penalty imposed by the Broken condition.
What improvised weapons have stats?
Looking at UE gear, I see the crowbar, hammer, shovel, torch, miner's pick, and sledgehammer.
Anything else stated up in modules or APs? Or elsewhere I have missed?
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What about giving all improvised weapons the Fragile quality? That covers them being easily breakable and show the damage effecting their intended purpose as well as the effect on them being used as weapons due to the penalty imposed by the Broken condition.
I wouldn't suggest it...but...If you want to use it, keep it simple and obvious. Only add the Fragile property to items that are clearly weak such as chairs, ceramic mugs, wine bottles, old tree limbs used as clubs, etc. Once you start adding the property to more solid items, you may have some players that don't see it the same way as you. It's not important enough to debate over during a session, so I think keeping it obvious is best.
Now, if you are planning a survival scenario where improvised weapons are and important element for the story, playing it up may add a unique feel to the adventure.
Improvised weapons are poor substitutes to actual weapons. In my game, if an improvised weapon is used as a club, dagger, or spear, players cannot use abilities or specialized feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc. In a pinch, they are better than nothing, but no one generally wants to use them for long.