| cmastah |
So I'm going through the first introductory scenario for PFS when a few of the skill checks had me wondering, what if the player doesn't think to use that skill check?
In one of the first skill checks, you make handy use of the surrounding paraphernalia (in specific manners) to successfully rescue a crate of books away from water. The tips were that I should give advice to the players to roll intelligence and engineering checks. In another case, a woman had obvious signs of alcoholism that weren't apparent unless a player rolled (apparently without prompting) heal.
I was thinking to myself that my players would never think to roll these checks and then almost inevitably I realized I'd have to be pretty arrogant to think even I'd think of such things. In the case of the crate, if I described the room in good detail they'd probably be able to pick out useful methods without prompting, but the one with the old lady? If I described her condition, the guy wouldn't have to roll heal. I'm worried that if I prompt my players to roll skill checks they may feel like they're being led rather than thinking for themselves. They also most likely would not think to gather information from surrounding people about the old lady and just go straight for the source and miss out on a lot of information and pretty much try to use a combination of purely sense motive and brute force. How should I treat some of these unprompted skill checks and 'puzzles'?
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In general, for "skill challenges" players should be telling the GM whatever they intend to do, and then the GM can advise what is the proper skill to do so. There will be other more experienced players that will tell you what skill they are trying to use though.
For example, in said alcoholic's woman's case, a player can say "is there anything wrong with her? Does she look in good health?" and then you can say "Well, a heal check may reveal more. Give me a skill check".
The second type of player will say "So, can I use heal to see if anything is wrong with her?" and so on.
One final way to do it is you think the skill check represents a character noticing something out of the ordinary spontaneously, you can roll their heal check secretly, and if anyone at the table makes the check, you add to the woman's description. "She looks like an old lady. Greg and Xanathul, you two only notice some bags under her eyes and a bit of an odor."
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Another thing you can do, assuming you have checked out the players' character sheets before the game (and made notes) would be to call for a D20 roll. Then, you can add the character's bonus to the roll, without telling the player what he was rolling for.
I actually use this technique quite a bit. I'll call out for a D20 roll, for example, for a Perception check to notice certain things, or perhaps a Knowledge check. I don't tell the players what they are rolling for (and sometimes, I've called for the roll before they are actually in the room they would be seeing something, sometimes it is just a roll for no real reason!)
On the suggestion of a friend, I downloaded the GameMechanics Initiative cards. I'll have the players fill these out, and additionally list all of their knowledge skills, with bonuses. I also usually do a quick once over on their character sheets, just so that I know what to expect, but also to pull things like the Heal skill bonus, if I know it will come into play.
Putting all this together has helped me out quite a bit. Since I have stopped using a screen for PFS play, this lets me be a little sneaky! You can even use a player's roll for the stealthing rogues that another players is rolling to perceive!
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In general, for "skill challenges" players should be telling the GM whatever they intend to do, and then the GM can advise what is the proper skill to do so. There will be other more experienced players that will tell you what skill they are trying to use though.
For example, in said alcoholic's woman's case, a player can say "is there anything wrong with her? Does she look in good health?" and then you can say "Well, a heal check may reveal more. Give me a skill check".
The second type of player will say "So, can I use heal to see if anything is wrong with her?" and so on.
One final way to do it is you think the skill check represents a character noticing something out of the ordinary spontaneously, you can roll their heal check secretly, and if anyone at the table makes the check, you add to the woman's description. "She looks like an old lady. Greg and Xanathul, you two only notice some bags under her eyes and a bit of an odor."
I can not see any player asking for a heal check on her. Without doing background checks (Gather Info from "contacts") - or perhaps a Perception check where the player says something like "I look around the room, do I notice anything?" But a Heal check on an NPC? Out of the blue? ... has anyone ever asked for a Heal check on a VC during a briefing?
Ol' Drang calls you down to one of those midnight briefings. As the PCs file into the room, one of the players says: "I'm going to do a Heal check on this old coot. He has got to be having SOME sort of issue, to always be waking us up in the middle of the night! I get a '29' - what's up with him? Is he drunk?"
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just tell the PCs to roll a Heal check... they are going to be doing them on the children anyway. And if they miss it, they'll just assume they missed a sick kid.
The players only get information from the Judge. What are we playing, 20 questions? If you don't have them roll the skill check unless they ask, you are going to start getting PCs who ask about EVERY SKILL.
"I roll Knowledge Eng. '17', Knowledge Nature '20', and Knowledge Local '12' when I enter the rose arbor, just incase anything is odd about it. OH, and if anyone is here, I'll roll another Kn. Local '15', Kn. Nobility '20' and ..."
ARRRG!
Just ask for the skill checks you need. If you really worry about Meta-gaming, ask for a few random extra checks.
Judge "You meet a man on the street. Roll Knowledge Nobility"
Player "hay! this guy must be a Noble! great! I got a '16'! Who is he?"
Judge "16? nobody important."
Player "yeah, sure.... better treat him nice just in case."
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Sometimes these are passive checks that don't require a player to ask about it at all.
If someone would noticably appear as if "something is off" because of their health when the character looks at them, a heal check is immediately called for regardless of whether the player asks about anything. The character can just "tell" (or not, on a bad roll).
Perception and maybe Knowledge are the most common passive checks, but it works here with Heal as well.
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Sometimes these are passive checks that don't require a player to ask about it at all.
If someone would noticably appear as if "something is off" because of their health when the character looks at them, a heal check is immediately called for regardless of whether the player asks about anything. The character can just "tell" (or not, on a bad roll).
Perception and maybe Knowledge are the most common passive checks, but it works here with Heal as well.
+1
Exactly!Though I have noticed a habit among some judges of trying to keep all information from the players. Of portioning it out in small drips... and only if the players ask exactly the right thing. You'd think they were charged by the word...
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That might be a symptom of not wanting to release the wrong information prematurely, but it's something GMs should teach themselves to avoid.
There's an enormous amount of information in the scenarios that the scenario doesn't tell the GM to tell the players ever, and you need to hand out as much of it to them whenever you can to improve the quality of the game.
| cmastah |
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Ol' Drang calls you down to one of those midnight briefings. As the PCs file into the room, one of the players says: "I'm going to do a Heal check on this old coot. He has got to be having SOME sort of issue, to always be waking us up in the middle of the night! I get a '29' - what's up with him? Is he drunk?"
"I roll Knowledge Eng. '17', Knowledge Nature '20', and Knowledge Local '12' when I enter the rose arbor, just incase anything is odd about it. OH, and if anyone is here, I'll roll another Kn. Local '15', Kn. Nobility '20' and ..."
I lol'd so hard :P
Thanks for the advice guys, in all fairness it would be a little out there to expect them to roll some of this stuff out of the blue. What I was worried about was that they'd feel that I'm pushing them rather than letting them take the lead and in retrospect I doubt they'd actually feel this way given the unlikely nature of them guessing what to roll and when.
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Thanks for the advice guys, in all fairness it would be a little out there to expect them to roll some of this stuff out of the blue. What I was worried about was that they'd feel that I'm pushing them rather than letting them take the lead and in retrospect I doubt they'd actually feel this way given the unlikely nature of them guessing what to roll and when.
Do it and get a feel for if they seem like they don't enjoy being asked; they may not. Outright ask them after the game if you want to get some feedback about another way you could have done the same thing.
Ask them if they'd prefer the way you did it earlier, or this new way which you had considered doing it?