Howdy.
You know, when a wizard faces all the hardships and dangers of adventuring life, wouldn't it be sensible if, by simply going what they go through, they got better at athletic activities? I mean a 12th level wizard has been through some serious stuff, so would it not make sense of their balance, movement and so on improved?
Similarly, if a big dumb warrior type has traveled many miles, been to a dozen cities, been exposed to a dozen cultures and faced hundreds of strange encounters, wouldn't they (simply through experience) pick up some of that culture and knowledge?
I think so too.
So here's an idea on how to make that happen.
This rank cannot put any skill above 3 ranks.
Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Heal, Perception, Ride, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim, Use Magic Device
The rank should reflect upon the activities from the last level worth of adventuring, or roleplayed some training by a PC or friendly NPC. For example, a rank added to swim only if the character had to swim sometime during the last level's worth of adventures.
This rank cannot put any skill above 3 ranks. If all of these skills have 3 ranks each, or no skill can be increased by the above criteria, the character replaces the rank for +1 hitpoint.
So... thoughts? Criticisms? Praise?
This is to round out characters as they level up.
Most characters put ranks in skills for mechanical benefit alone, as part of a build.
For example, a Fighter would crank up Intimidate for Dazzling Display, and put the other ranks in perception and other "gadda keep up with the Jones'" skills. As a result, you end up building a 20th level fighter who's been around the world 10 times, but hasn't picked up anything from his travels that reflects his globetrotting nature... how does that show experience?
For another example, a Sorcerer would crank up Spellcraft and Know Arcana, maybe putting ranks in perception and other "gadda keep up with the Jones'" skills. As a result, you end up building a 20th level sorcerer who's adventured in the seas yet can't swim any better, survived cinematic events which challenged his agility and balance, yet he never improves (acrobatics), and so on. He's supposedly this super seasoned badass, but he's really just better at magic and magic knowledge; he's a better spellcaster, but not an experienced adventurer.
The concept is to make all mid- and high-level characters into someone whose beyond-the-norm experiences has rounded them out and made them the sort of people who are "pretty good at everything" (these ranks), yet still the best at what they do (standard build choices). Further, by level 11 any character (and all they do, and all they touch, end where they go) is worth noting via Legend Lore - the very magic system labels these people as legendary.
I can see a low level sorcerer trying to use a rope to swing away from a serious threat, and awkwardly dangling for comedic effect. But someone who's faced death enough times, been through uncountable dangers and so on would be carrying someone as they swing away with confidence borne from experience; the characters who were once greenhorns, now do everything "like a boss". Even the non-physical types can do more physical stuff, and the dumb warrior types have become knowledgeable and worldly.
I remind you this is a homebrew rule I offer, not a proposed change to the RAW.
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*shrug* so basically you're saying "you don't put points in RP skills because you don't think you need them - so I'll give you points to do it for you"?
If the PCs are regularly using those skills and the players don't feel the need to put in (more) points, then maybe the check wasn't very hard or important?
On a mechanical level, this also mitigates some of the weakness of low-rank-per-level classes. Fighters, Clerics and Sorcerers really feel the pain unless they make sacrifices for a few extra ranks.
As someone playing a Rogue with an INT of 16, I find that even then I'm strapped for ranks to do stuff outside my specialty; I need alot of maxed out skills to stay relevant in my party role, so I can't spare anything for the things which reflect what happened on my adventures. Everyone wants to be involved in the game, in whatever aspect of the game they want. Being a total nobody in a game facet inspires sulking or loss of interest.
I also like to have mechanics reflect RP. Not having the mechanics to back it up is too vague & pointless a version of make believe for my tastes.
If you think this is dumb, feel free to ignore the thread. Meanwhile, thanks for keeping it topped.
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In the case of fighters, clerics and sorcerers (and also paladins), why not just increase their base skill points per level? I think the 2pts/level is an artifact that really needs a change. Most other classes that don't have special emphasis on Intelligence get 4 or more skill points per level: oracles, rangers, barbarians, monks, druids, inquisitors..
2 skill points per level is just too little, for non-Intelligence-primary classes.
And what would you likely spend those extra ranks on?
See the system as it is demands specialization for CR relevance. This really denies the seasoned, cultured adventurer from being revealed in the mechanics. You have clumsy "experienced" wizards and clerics, ignorant "experienced" warriors and the like, requiring to be that, because of power-by-level mechanics demanding the investment of build resources.
The option I'm proposing has a max rank limit of 3, and a restricted list of skills. As such, all PCs slowly improve both in terms of cultural/academic/worldliness, and in terms of athletic/danger/stunts. But they can only surpass the 3 ranks by using their own X/level ranks given by class.
Any high level build using this would be better than level 1-2 NPCs at almost everything, yet still totally awesome (meaning CR relevant) in their area of specialty. So in a town of NPC losers, these high level PCs are incredible in almost every way. Even the dumb Barbarian with an INT of 7 can amaze the crowd by playing the harp, or go to the casino and show off what he learned by playing cards in the 9 Hells.
What most people complain about for fighters and other 2/HD non-Int characters is that they lack utility and versatility. If everyone can so a bit of crafting, a bit of negotiating, share some knowledge, and so forth, then alot of these problems go away in the downtime or NPC setting. Sure, the fighter can't negotiate with CR relevant demons, but in dealing with demons, the average shmoe merchant (who used to be pretty good) is now smalltime peanuts by comparison. This reflects the grandeur of mid to high level characters, and also provides modest flexibility in what they can do.
Now if everyone gets these ranks, what happens? EVERY party member benefits equally, and for some classes (see above) these benefits have more subjective value than others. But the point is that it creates a very broad list of options for utility and adventure, without stealing the thunder from the specialists.
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I play two wizards with high intelligence (obviously), who get 6-7 skill points per level; and that's quite enough to dip my fingers into lots of skills while being good enough at my core skills. Likewise my druid has Int 12 which gets him 5 skills per level, which is enough to keep me greedy but not too little so I don't starve.
I think you're overestimating how many skill points MUST GO to "power" skills to keep up. Consider that a LOT of skill DCs are 15 to 20; with a good ability, class skill and a few skill points those are easily doable without spending all your skill points on them. For most classes there's only one "mandatory" skill: Perception. The classes with other mandatory skills tend to receive enough skill points (wizards: high Int; rogues, rangers, bards: 6+ per level).
The exception is fighters, clerics, sorcerers and paladins. They just don't get enough skill points; and after buying "necessities" (like a single point in a couple of class skills), there's nothing left.
Just elevate them to 4 skill points per level instead of 2, I think that'll be enough.
While both of you have very good points, I like the rule. I might use it but put my own twist to it. I like the idea of having a mechanic that shows Role Playing experience where you get a little bonus here and there for role playing the scenario. There is also the option of, say an extra bonus. For example I have an arcane archer that while exploring an ancient library surrounded by a permanent cloudkill, (Pain in the neck to get in there BTW) he found a flute. He took it out of whimsy and it turns out that the guy that tended to this ancient library was in layman terms an epic level bard. Now mind you my fighter/wizard combo platter has never played a flute in his life. He got a few tips and pointers from the guy that ran the place and I learned how to squawk out a tune. Now my GM told me that if I put a rank into Perform Flute, I will get a +1 bonus due to the guy that taught me.
Now I know that a +1 isn't groundbreaking but getting a bonus for role playing instead of "roll playing" is a nice little thing to show that the character is constantly learning. That you will pick up skills that you never really intended to pick up. Now I role play practicing that flute, to justify to keep putting ranks into it. But the twist that I might put into it this homebrew is that at every 5 levels you get an extra 2 skill points to put into your skills. Now these skill points cannot go into a skill you've never used before, but neither can they raise the total ranks above three. For example if you've never used fly before but you just did a jumping puzzle, by all means you can put a little bonus in acrobatics, given that it has less than 3 ranks.
I believe that you can always get experience just by traveling the world, not just by slaying the BBEG and his minions. Cause level 8 Expert Dwarf brewer may never have picked up weapon to slay the orc things. But he has traveled the world learning how to brew the good brew.
I also agree with Ascalaphus as in fighters and wizards don't get enough skill enough skill points to begin with. Cause 3 skill points a level (2+ 13 INT) makes a fighter nothing but a beat stick and not very interesting in terms of roleplay. But say you wanna make this guy interesting. Say he constantly tries to barter and use doplomancy, on the merchant to get a better deal on his crafting materials. He puts his 3 ranks into Craft, Acrobatics, and Perform (Cause he wants to be a duelist!) and can't really spare the skill points due to prerequisites for all the feats and abilities that he attempts to gain. A little bonus here and there goes a long way and it rewards role playing.