Goblin Squad Member
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Now that we have some WIP images of settlements and structures I want to ask about Hideouts.
We can see in the settlement shown in Til I Reach the Highest Ground that tents are possible as a beginning structure (see Lisa Stephens post).
Could a Hideout start as a tent in the woods? Could it be escalated to a structure, even a fort, later? We do have an example of a monster tent. Could we get better tents, larger and with camouflage to make then harder to spot?
Could it be a simple cave that can be expanded (excavated) later? Could we construct multiple exits? Could we install traps for the trespasser?
Could we build camouflaged watchtowers in the Hideout hex to better look for targets/Enforcers?
How would you like to see Hideouts starting and how would their escalation path look?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to see hideouts escalate into well hidden forts or even underground complexes. That would be great for PVP that could seem like PVE. Yes, let them have traps, lookout holes/spots/tree platforms, storage rooms, the whole works.
Even though my merchant character will oppose bandits until blue in the face, I would like to see them have some really cool features
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see hideouts, at their most advanced (in the wilderness) being similar to the expansive tunnel systems used by the Viet Cong during the Viet Nam War.
They could also be as simple as a single-man, concealed, firing position. Similar to an LP-OP entrenched position, if you are familiar with such things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
Kind of like the "threat radius" in Player-Created Buildings and Structures blog? Or do you really mean just single man hideout outpost positions? Would they be for warning of danger or ambush or both?
An LP-OP (Listening Post / Observation Post) is usually a 10-man to 4-man entrenched position.
If I recall the dimensions correctly:
It is shaped into an "X" or Cross. It was about 3 feet wide; each length as about 9 feet long; six feet of length was about 2 - 3 feet deep, and the last 3 foot section was about about arm-pit deep.
You could stand at all four corners, and all that would be exposed was your head and shoulders (firing position). The other length, that was about 3 feet deep, was for sleeping.
The entire position was covered by ponchos, or shelter halves.
You could either listen / observe from these positions or ambush, to answer your question.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
Yeah I know what LP/OP stands for if not the details. Thank you for the info. Let me rephrase my question.
Do you mean that you would like these LP/OP as an added feature or option beyond the "threat radius" described in the blog? Maybe to widen the "threat radius" or as an added security feature?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would see the LP/OP as being the lowest tier of a hideout. It is my hope that hideouts are the settlement equivalent for bandits, and other "fringe" types.
As for the actual mechanics, we shall see what the Devs have in store for Bandits and their hideouts. I'm guessing that we too will be worthy of our own Dev Blog, much in the same way that Assassins have gotten.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would see the LP/OP as being the lowest tier of a hideout. It is my hope that hideouts are the settlement equivalent for bandits, and other "fringe" types.
As for the actual mechanics, we shall see what the Devs have in store for Bandits and their hideouts. I'm guessing that we too will be worthy of our own Dev Blog, much in the same way that Assassins have gotten.
Oh yeah. There is too much interest in banditry for them not to have a blog for you guys. Like I said, my character will resist you every which way he can. You can be sure that he will respect you though. That is as long as bandits play with a bit of honor, which I believe your band will. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is my hope that hideouts are the settlement equivalent for bandits, and other "fringe" types.
If you need a 'settlement equivalent', why not a proper settlement? I see hideouts as (temporary) ambush sites built along the trade routes.
IMO any bandit group should be able to operate several hideouts a move between them. IMO hideouts should be constructable even in owned hexes (actually finishing it without being detected should be incredibly hard though), and claiming land should not destroy existing hideouts.
IMO hideouts are part of "personal PvP", not territory warfare.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf: yes, agree.
The hideout just needs an inventory and you should have that need covered. But:
"PVP purposes" to me also includes avoiding PVP, so there are several ways hideouts tie in with pvp:
-you can hide from enemies/bandits in a hideout, avoiding being caught
-you can [we assume] hide your goods in a hideout, reducing item loss if caught
-hideouts (occupied or empty) can be found by others who may then attack (and loot?) them. I assume an unoccupied hideout will have no indication of who the owner is and destroying/looting a hideout will not give a flag [maybe looter?] or alignment hit.
this opens questions like:
-do I as a skinner put my hides in a hideout [pun not intended] to avoid losing them if killed by a mob or bandit - but at the risk of theft by anyone who can find my hideout?
-do I as a city guard automatically destroy any hideouts I find, or can I mark them as 'known' and try to find if it belongs to a friendly harvester/trader/smuggler?
-is it a legit thief playstyle to find and loot hideouts (risking that they are occupied)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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this opens questions like:
-do I as a skinner put my hides in a hideout [pun not intended] to avoid losing them if killed by a mob or bandit - but at the risk of theft by anyone who can find my hideout?
-do I as a city guard automatically destroy any hideouts I find, or can I mark them as 'known' and try to find if it belongs to a friendly harvester/trader/smuggler?
-is it a legit thief playstyle to find and loot hideouts (risking that they are occupied)?
My answers are based on a guess or even a hope.
1. I would guess that it might be a chaotic based skill to build a hideout. But if so, and you are Chaotic, then sure, why not?
2. The Devs have written that hideouts could be discovered, but very difficult. Rangers might be the best skilled at discovering hideouts. Once discovered I would guess and hope that they can be kitted, destroyed or perhaps even used (taken over).
3. I certainly hope so. My company would love to raid the hideouts of our competitors.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf: yes, agree.
The hideout just needs an inventory and you should have that need covered. But:
"PVP purposes" to me also includes avoiding PVP, so there are several ways hideouts tie in with pvp:
-you can hide from enemies/bandits in a hideout, avoiding being caught
-you can [we assume] hide your goods in a hideout, reducing item loss if caught
-hideouts (occupied or empty) can be found by others who may then attack (and loot?) them. I assume an unoccupied hideout will have no indication of who the owner is and destroying/looting a hideout will not give a flag [maybe looter?] or alignment hit.this opens questions like:
-do I as a skinner put my hides in a hideout [pun not intended] to avoid losing them if killed by a mob or bandit - but at the risk of theft by anyone who can find my hideout?
-do I as a city guard automatically destroy any hideouts I find, or can I mark them as 'known' and try to find if it belongs to a friendly harvester/trader/smuggler?
-is it a legit thief playstyle to find and loot hideouts (risking that they are occupied)?
Hideouts for merchants and travelers now? The wilderness should be for the Wild Things. In player terms wild things are bandits, killers, druids, rangers, etc...
The only plans I have seen so far are plans of hideouts for bandits. A place to log out safely, store property, and most importantly interdict fast travelers for ambush and SAD or murder.
Hideouts and the term hideouts should be exclusive to bandits and outlaws, supercharged bandits. Now if you want places for merchants and gatherers to hide loads of goods why not make them their own unique construct called "caches"?
Building hideouts or caches should require a special skill or skills all of their very own. Gotta make them very well hidden. What did the Devs say the sub hexes size will be? 400 to 1000 yards across? Placing a hideout in settled territory, if allowed, should be extremely difficult. There just isn't that much space and you have younglings and patrols crisscrossing those areas all the time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hiding in the wilderness is a good way to leave nature undisturbed, I see druids and rangers being good at making (and perhaps finding) 'hideouts' in the wilds.
It could be a hunting skill, even. For gathering hides/meat from an ecologically significant distance from the settlement...
Overall, I think hideouts should be very limited in scope.
I.E. small, vulnerable, and temporary.
Let's not make them the poor man's settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Merchants and Travelers would be better off using inns, ideally with caravansary available for additional protection. However, if things like smuggling and slave running are available, hideouts carefully created within an opposing kingdom would be valuable tools for avoiding patrols.
A hideout itself could range from a bolt hole for <5 people to store gear and sleep in, up to a small network of hidden rooms and advanced watchposts connected by tunnels and able to support a couple dozen individuals. More people than that in a single area makes it much easier to locate, thus negating the 'hide' portion of the 'hideout' A hideout should be limited in size for that reason and to possibly act as a balance against hidden force projection.
It would be interesting to use a hideout as a cache. Go out into the wilderness, establish a hideout, and store the results of your gathering in there until you have enough to make a decent haul back to market under protection.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... which brings to mind the renter's insurance. I wonder whether some enterprising alliance will create an insurance system for settlements, so that if your settlement is lost to an invasion or war you will receive compensation.
I'm sorry sir, but your settlement appears to have been overrun by goblins. Your policy covers loss due to war, but it seems that you declined our optional incursion coverage. Have a nice day!